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MOTORS LIQUIDATION Message Board

  • webuchadnezzar webuchadnezzar Jan 7, 2010 11:10 AM Flag

    Is the UAW finally waking up?

     

    I am not too stubborn to change an opinion. If the UAW continues taking this new tone, I will start to give them some slack. However, it is far from clear they are sincere yet....they have never played nice with others before.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/business/06uaw.html?ref=business

    Taking on this new attitude permanently IS THEIR ONLY HOPE. I believe American workers can build the greatest cars in the world. They just need to want to do it badly enough.

    -web

    This topic is deleted.
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    • The lack of political will comes from the fact that the politicians keep borrowing money. If China were to let their currency float, that means they need to remove the peg and sell all the treasuries they hold. That would nuke the dollar. Despite all the talk about currency manipulation, none of the politicians actually want China, Japan, and South Korea to stop. They are secretly begging for it to continue. We can't fund all this health care, entitlement programs, and all the wars without China buying out treasuries, and China can't remove their peg without selling US Treasuries - we can't have it both ways. The US can quite easily force the Asian currencies to appreciate simply by stopping deficit spending. As long as we borrow all of the Chinese money away, they cannot spend it to buy our stuff, and if they are spending their money to buy stuff, they cannot lend that same money to the US.

      The Democrats want very large government without increasing taxes. That doesn't work, it leads to deficit spending and that requires borrowing money. The Republicans want to cut taxes and in name they want small government, but instead they cut taxes and also created large government. Again, leads to large deficits and borrowing money. It is the fault of both parties. At some point this will all blow up - when it becomes obvious to everybody that we can only pay with worthless printed dollars and everybody pulls the plug or until some politician decides to simultaneously increase taxes and cut spending to balance the books. Either way, doesn't look good. China won't get out of this unscathed either. We are the subprime borrowers and China is the bank. We know how this ends...

    • Jhawk, check this is when the problem started and we need to go back to what it was in 1933.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0k2PmF-o5Q

      Who killed the Glass-Steagall Act?

    • <I like the system that has worked for hundreds of years and made this country great. People get paid, they can take the money and buy stocks in companies, they get a slice of the profits.>

      The system got tweaked in 1933 and is going to get tweaked again.Unfortunately,most problems in the US stem from the trade deficit,and the lack of political will to deal in a harsh way with countries that practice currency manipulation(and yes,Japan, China,and South Korea are the ones I am referring to).This more than anything else has contributed to the economic decline of the United States.The American worker is the most productive in the world.Our stock markets are the most open in the world.It is long past time for typical Republicqan dogma,when typical Republican dogma is what our competitors are counting on to eat the USAs lunch.Obama has threatened the countries I listed above with reprisals for currency manipulation.He needs to follow through

    • Excellent point!

    • It's quite easy for ordinary people to get a slice of the profits. It's buying stock. Funny thing is when they start doing that, they realize that companies actually don't make that much money. And if a company isn't "greedy", they will go bankrupt and cease to exist.

      I like the system that has worked for hundreds of years and made this country great. People get paid, they can take the money and buy stocks in companies, they get a slice of the profits. Most people foolishly throw their money away on discretionary items and the complain that they don't get a slice of the profits.

    • <The union serves a purpose when the corporation is as greedy as GM.
      Both are at fault.
      Both deserve redefining.
      But, until big corps retract their greed and monopolistic ways, the unions must stay to balance the power>

      Boy oh boy are you delusional! The sole purpose of "big corps" is to make $$$$$$. When successful, the workers have NO RIGHT to the profits. The company earned them. The workers got paid their respective wages. The union can be there to make sure that workers are safe and treated fairly in the workplace and that some reasonable health care is negotiated on behalf of a large group. That's it. No more. Now, I DO believe that "big corps" should have a profit sharing formula BUT that shareholders are also rewarded when the "big corps" do well. That is usually achieved by share price increases, splits and dividends. Shareholders (owners) should be first with their hands out. Then some equitable profit sharing.

      Companies should be in business TO MAKE A PROFIT - not to provide jobs, health care, etc...

    • Don't be naive. They don't have a clue how to help. The auto companies have told them on numerous occasions what the final outcome would be and they ignored it. Are the D3 to blame because they didn't break the union? Yes, there were several opportunities in the past decade and we should have.

      As soon as there are profits again it will be business as usual, trust me on this. The only answer is to continue to move to other countries and let them die naturally. The only opportunity for the UAW is to become competitive with other low cost countries and that will never happen.

    • Given that the UAW owns a good portion of GM and cant sell it until the feds allow stock to be offered, its in their best interest to keep it alive until they can dump it ( and dumping it as soon as possible is their stated intent).
      They were not as agreeable when Ford asked to level the playing field, so its obvious that they are only "waking up" when they see there is no other option.

    • I have to say that bashing the UAW was fun when the GM stock was going down and making me money.

      Now after reading the news and post on this board for some time, I have become more educated. I feel that GM's management and their accounting department had more to do with their bankruptcy fate.

      Also GM sells more cars then Ford and has the same UAW cost structure as GM. I know Ford's financials are not the best, although they did not go bankrupt.

      I think the UAW members just don't know anything different for that is their way of life. Besides my guess is if you disolved the UAW they would be making peanuts like Walmart workers. GM management would just fine the lowest cost that workers are willing to work.

      Most likely if you disolved the Union they would just shift the jobs overseas to Mexico and China. GM would just pass the cost savings onto the stockholders and management would just line their pockets. That is how GM has always worked when dealing with the UAW.

      • 1 Reply to shelbytownship
      • > I have to say that bashing the UAW was fun when the GM stock was going down and making me money. <

        Bashing the UAW is fun under any circumstances. A union too stupid and incompetent to exert its not once considerable political clout to fight "free trade", which allows subsidized and unfair foreign competition to destroy market share and competitiveness, deserves to be destroyed.

        > Now after reading the news and post on this board for some time, I have become more educated. I feel that GM's management and their accounting department had more to do with their bankruptcy fate. <

        They helped too; a lot.

        > Also GM sells more cars then Ford and has the same UAW cost structure as GM. I know Ford's financials are not the best, although they did not go bankrupt. <

        Unless protectionist trade legislation is quickly enacted to prohibit the importation into the US of foreign manufactured products, or manufactured products sold by foreign owned or based companies, Ford WILL go bankrupt; probably will even if such legislation is passed and enforced.

        > I think the UAW members just don't know anything different for that is their way of life. Besides my guess is if you disolved the UAW they would be making peanuts like Walmart workers. GM management would just fine the lowest cost that workers are willing to work. <

        Unions could serve a useful purpose in preventing management from exploiting workers, but unions with "monopoly powers" abuse their power just as employers do, and put themselves out of business in the long run. Organizations like the UAW should be prohibited, broken up, and prevented from forming, based on being a conspiracy in restraint of trade, but politicians are too interested in votes to do what is right rather than what is likely to get them reelected.

        > Most likely if you disolved the Union they would just shift the jobs overseas to Mexico and China. GM would just pass the cost savings onto the stockholders and management would just line their pockets. That is how GM has always worked when dealing with the UAW. <

        NOT dissolving the unions is what drives jobs overseas, combined with a lack of tariffs and protectionist trade restrictions which allow a higher standard of living in the USA than is found in dictator ruled third world countries that employ prison labor and child labor and have no enforced laws regarding pollution or workplace safety, and which pay no healthcare or retirement benefits.

    • build cars? No one invited you to the GM sadie hawkins dance? A business is a place where people feel good about cheating and manipulating each other in a non-hostile zero-sum game where everone wins. Cars? That's as funny as engineering or customers.
      ROFLMFO.
      They had lawyers to fix problems like that.
      All praise the tampons.

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