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  • personality_less personality_less Jan 9, 2010 5:29 PM Flag


    you got spanked badly here - any retort?

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    • Just a few questions:

      What make and model car/truck do you drive?
      What make TV do you have?
      What make appliances do you own?
      What brand shoes do you have?
      What's the brand of your computer?

      Do they work?

      All this stuff about kid's toys from China (don't get me wrong, it's a serious issue) is distorting the truth regarding foreign goods. Do not trick yourself into thinking that off shore manufacturing is all low quality. The quality of foreign made goods has more to do with the importing company's quality standards and requirements than it does with where it was made. Are BMW's low quality? Are Toyotas low quality? Are Mercedes low quality?

      My only point is that there are many, many high quality producers in other countries and Americans can not trick themselves into thinking that we alone can produce high quality.

      If America is going to regain our rightful place in the manufacturing world, we need to look ourselves in the face and admit that we ALL (including CEO's} simply make too much money, especially for unskilled labor. Much attention is put on the CEO's compensation, and I'm not arguing against that. But the wages of unskilled workers in a typical manufacturing company make the CEO's compensation rounding error. There are about 60,000 UAW people in GM vs 1 CEO. If a young person starting out today wants to be in industrial management in a large company, he/she needs to know that they will spend a good part of their lives in other parts of the world like I did. Automation and productivity gains are part of the answer, but I believe we are in for some tough times ahead when massive unemployment reaches its peak. Even after the recession is over, I believe the manufacturing sector will never return to what it once was in this country. This will be a problem.

      What are all the displaced American workers going to do? That's the question...and the answer is not simply to keep them employed doing things that continue to make us more uncompetitive. Time and time again, history has taught us that a country using a lot unskilled labor at a relatively high wage is going to fail. If you want to be in a labor intensive industry, you'd better be in a low cost labor environment.

    • NAFTA didn't make all of the US manufacturers of small electronics & TVs move over seas back in the 1970s & 1980s. The demand for cheaper TVs and radios caused the manufacturing to move over seas. The Textile industry always has sought the lowest labor costs for the last several hundred years. Unions and their high wages just make the transformation faster. Automation has gotten rid of more US jobs than globalization. One person can now run 6 CNC machines at a time (monitor) where as in the 1970s 6 people had to run 6 machines that did just part of the machining that a CNC machine does in seconds.

    • It's difficult to argue a point with people who are either stupid or ignorant.
      It's like global warming:
      To say it doesn't exist is downright stupid.
      To say it's completely manmade is questionable but not entirely incorrect.
      There is a difference.
      Just like on these boards.

      When I read things like "it's been that way for hundreds of years" or "the unions destroyed America", there is no counter to these stupid quotes.
      History will show clearly the greed and deception that corporations have done to America.
      It is slowly coming out today, with healthcare, the food industry, the garment industry, etc.

      For the millionth time, let me say I am not, never have been or ever will be in a union. Can the idiots understand English?
      I also have said they contribute to problems but they are not the sole cause of the demise of GM or any others.
      By contrast, union busters like Walmart have bankrupt businesses and towns with their importing of horrendous products that are cheaper than domestics.
      I have also said that I have no faith in either political party as they are both corrupt and bought by lobbyists and corporations when they should represent the people.
      Lastly, I never said corporations are not entitled to profits as some idiot here said; I said they are greedy and take care of the executives at the expense of the employees, inferior products, and the lack of innovation which all contributed to their failure.

      To capsulize, watch the film "Wall Street." It was ahead of its time and depicted exactly what happens when you allow big business to police themselves - in case Enron, Tyco and Global Crossing weren't enough for you.
      And speaking of this delightful trio, anyone know if unions did this to them? Want to guess?

      You see, when you have forums like this and platforms for anyone to spit hatred or nonsense like Limbaugh or Beck do, you create confusion by inserting personal opinion with fact.
      You can take this to the bank:
      When Reagan overturned all of the laws regarding regulatory responsibility in 1982 and allowed these megacorporations to control themselves - known as deregulation - it was the beginning of the end.
      You cannot allow business to police themselves. NEVER.
      You need government regulatory agencies - and I know many will jump on this to say they all suck (oh well) - to control the corporations like they did for five decades when the economy suffered aberrations, not depression.
      If you cannot understand this, especially given the depression we are in today, then you are blind.

      Does anyone remember Bell Telephone?
      They were broken up into "baby Bells" for one simple reason: no company should be allowed to grow whereas they can hurt the economy of the nation (paraphrase).
      So when Reagan created deregulation by overturning the laws that were created as a direct result of the first depression, it opened the floodgates for all these corporations to run amok.
      So mergers and acquisitions ran rampant, monopolies became the norm, and the quality of life diminished.
      Funny thing, though - with all the corruption in the unions and how bad they are to business and America, none were able to destroy a major business - then, or now.
      By the way - Bell was unionized and they seemed to do quite fine.

      Only shortsighted people like to jump on the bandwagon and say the unions destroyed GM, America, whatever...
      You are sadly mistaken, and the facts speak for themselves.
      One day, when your white collar jobs start getting exported - and they are starting to with customer service and technical help desks - you will be startled and wonder how it happened.

      Let me tell you...

      • 2 Replies to iball1029
      • Dude,
        Bell WAS a monopoly, of course the unions did well. Until MCI came along and then Sprint the country paid very high phone bills especially long distance rates. You HAD to RENT your phone from Bell (Large Black ugly thing of a phone) MCI & Sprint forced the Bell break up, and then COMPETITION lowered our rates, improved our phone system, the Bell unions fought all the way to the end. We now have cell phones with the power of a 286 computer the size of a small wallet. None of this would have happened with ATT/Bell having a monopoly. We have the internet, Cisco, Intel, Nokia, Motorola, Apple, IBM, and other companies coming up with great new products because ATT/Bell was broken up. The US would be in the Stone Age if the Unions and Bell would have maintained their monopoly; the rest of the world would be laughing at our 50 year old land lines and RENTED big BLACK PHONES.
        The textile industry has been seeking the lowest cost labor for 400 years, Britain, to New England, to the south, to the Caribbean, to Mexico, to Japan, to the Philippines, now to China & India. NAFTA didn't start that!

      • <<It's difficult to argue a point with people who are either stupid or ignorant.>>
        You bear many common traits with Mallen who posts on this board. Whenever someone has a different view, you resort to juvenile name calling. No wonder you identify with a union point of view.

        <<To capsulize, watch the film "Wall Street.>>
        I have, very entertaining, but I don't think I will form my ideas or policies based on a Hollywood production. Feel free to do so if the movies are your best source of information. There's a reason why they call it fiction.

        <<You need government regulatory agencies - and I know many will jump on this to say they all suck (oh well) - to control the corporations like they did for five decades when the economy suffered aberrations, not depression.>>
        I'm not against regulation, in fact, I think the crooks on Wall Street need significant regulation especially in derivatives trading. You might want to read the book "Sell Out" by Charles Gasparino if you want an insight to the Wall Street mess. Sadly, there are no pictures.

        But then again, we were talking about the affects of Unions until you were diverted to corporate regulation, please stay on point.

        <<You are sadly mistaken, and the facts speak for themselves.>>
        I've re-read your post twice and have yet to find a fact.

        Please direct your attention to the following link and answer the question.

    • Allow me to speak for her. There have been a lot of over educated can't see the forest thru the trees guys on this board. I relazie that this rally caught most by suprise and now many are embarrassed and in hiding. It is ok to be wrong, but it is not ok to look out your window and deny the sun is shinning when it is. The rocket has launched!!! Old GM is a going concern. Look out shorts. I mean what kind of loser shorted GM anyway. Probably a flag burner!