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Westport Innovations Inc. Message Board

  • duggyy duggyy Mar 27, 2013 9:40 AM Flag

    This question has been bothering me.

    Why are the sales of the 15L Westport engine so anemic, maybe dismal is a better word? Everyone is waiting for the 12L because it fills a big gap in horsepower. Well, the 15L could be used in a lot of applications that the 12L is used. The bigger engine presumably is used in applications where higher horsepower is needed and by definition lower MPG. Therefore, wouldn't the 15L be an even better application for a money saving natural gas engine?

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    • "Westport HD System

      Liquid, or liquefied, natural gas is stored in the LNG tank and drawn out with a unique LNG pump. The LNG is vaporized, using excess heat from the engine coolant, and exits the tank module at approximately 100 ºF and 4,500 psi (40 ºC and 30 MPa). The warm, high-pressure gas is filtered and delivered to the fuel conditioning module, where it is regulated and fed to Westport's HPDI injectors. The Westport HD engine is electronically managed, allowing continuous adjustments that provide optimal and unparalleled engine efficiency."

      If you are refering to the Westport 15L HD perhaps the above quote, taken from Westport's web-site will help. The 15L HD as well as some of the new engines coming on line later this year all use HPDI or High Pressure Direct Injection. Note the fuel pressure, 4500psi. Even when a CNG tank is full the pressure is not sufficient for the HPDI system. Sales will pick up as LNG stations open.

    • we need infrastructure.Thank Mitch McConnell for filibustering the nat gas act, twice, and the any monies toward infrastructure.

    • mecman@verizon.net mecman Mar 28, 2013 11:45 AM Flag

      The truckers that could use the 15L are long haul truckers. If they get them now they may just sit idle Once they see the nation has a complete LNG/CNG service station network the orders will come. If the Gov't doesn't help out to get us there we will see more stations poping up built by the Chinese. It will happen, should have a more complete network by year end then watch the orders come in.

      Sentiment: Buy

    • a question
      your a big trucking company
      Would you invest in a lng truck?
      You do
      In 3 years ng gets big
      A cng truck comes out with two big tanks and tank under trailer that gets 400 miles
      Cng gas stations come out where ng is piped in
      About this time ng will selling for $6 per kcuft
      You are less than diesel and not a bad investment but you also put a lot of money in set up for working on these vehicles
      Your competition waited
      They are running on cng at 50 cents less per gallon than you
      Not good
      Well maybe you can convert
      And maybe not
      The trucks may be built for these tanks
      Even if you can its going to be $20,000
      I wished I had waited
      As I have said for years
      Its cng
      Every thing in the long run goes to the cheapest
      In the long run it will be cng piped into stations and their will be options to get enough tanks on the trucks for this and maybe by that time cheaper tanks
      When ng gets big,cost to run pipe to stations will easily be covered by the volume of gas
      It is so easy to see
      It cost money and equipment to make lng and to deliver
      Lng will always a lot more than cng

      • 4 Replies to rbtsherman
      • You seem to be forgetting several major factors. 1, It takes much longer to fill a CNG tank than an LNG tank (less $ for truckers) 2, CNG tanks are MUCH heavier than LNG tanks. (less $ for truckers)3, All things being equal a CNG truck can't go as far as an LNG truck. (less $ for truckers) 4, CNG is much more dangerous than LNG. 5, Running gas pipes is incredibly expensive and disruptive not to mention municipallities are not going to permit their real estate being excavated to bury gas pipes to fill up trucks. Finally, 6, the amortization time for payback for installing gas pipe infrastructure is probably over 20 years. Who's gonna buy in to a deal like that? Get real!

      • Robert, you are not factoring in the fact tha LNG facilities are being built NA wide. As more come online the price and competition will determine the LNG price relative to CNG. Also economies of scale will take over. The LNG vs CNG answer is both. There are applications for both and the fact is that you argument of I wish I had waited is false as those that act first get the savings for the entire time the competition does not move and they pick up new accounts. Not moving will become a recipe for a declining business model. The economics will force companies to move and the fact is that L:NG and CNG will both play a roll. You also did not factor in fueling times. It is far fast to fuel up using LNG versus CNG and this is a real cost. A load not moving is costing money. The difference can be about 1/4 to 1/2 hour depending on size of tanks and this adds up over a year.

        The reality is that no matter what, WPRT is going to get business in all areas and you know as well as I that in 2013 there are lot of new products coming online for WPRT. You also know that it takes about 18 months for full commercialization of each new line. In other words what have been costs will be profits as we move forward. The millions spent on R&D will start to bring in Revenue and it is obvious now that Rail will convert very fast. This switch in rail will help to speed the switch in Trucking as it will open many fleet operators eyes.

      • How long before wprt comes out with a cng tank on both sides of truck?

      • so what we will see this year
        sales of cng trucks with customers filling up their trucks them selfs with cng
        The buyers got to be as smart as me .Thats not hard

    • So, no takers on the question?

      Ok, the only thing I can surmise from the lack of response:
      1 .Everyone sold their stock and left the message board
      2. It is a stupid question
      3. The answer is obvious
      4. The answer is not obvious
      5. There is no good answer
      6. The question is a conundrum wrapped in an enigma
      7. None of the above.
      8. All of the above

      • 2 Replies to duggyy
      • 7. None of the above.

        This is one of the engines that requires infrasatructure for widespread adoption. This is still being built and as more companies go to this it will force the competition. The simple reason whyhat companies utilizing LNG or CNG can charge less to ship. (Smaller or no fuel surcharge) as such they will start to win business from those that do not switch. This means that in 3-5 years infrastructure will be built out more and companies will be forced to adopt due to economics. FYI to all those ignorant to the Natural Gas Pricing. Simply put the spread between NG and diesel is here to stay. As more demand comes online more fracking will occur and NG production will increase to meet the demand. There is money to be made on both sides and no Big Oil is Big Gas so there will not be an issue on the switch.

      • not enough data, wait a few quarters.

 
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