Agreed. I didn't hear anything on the call to warrant this. Some questions were a bit strange - some plain stupid - one guy asking if HFC will sell product into the east coast market. What an idiot. Someone else asked at what price they will buy back. Sounds like they were itching to short it. Jennings didn't bite.
Gas cracks were negative in Cheyenne in January but have improved, now at 10 bucks, all other margins are very good.
PS, the 3 that missed today, are all down close to 6%, the only difference here, is that the other 2 have been up substantially so this pull back for them is nothing over the past 3 days.
I did like the east coast one, shows these guys don't know their a_s from their elbow.
I didn't think it was possible but it could break the 200 day and still no comments from the analysts but I don't expect it to be pretty if the stock is trading down this much as they will get with their clientele and inform them of impending downgrades.
Are you as stupid as your post? What has cap + trade have to do with a new infrastructure to replace gas? If cap + trade were implemented today it doesn't replace infrastructure only the way we source gas/distillates. Stop trying to be something you're not, knowledgeable about anything. Do me a favor + put me on ignore so I don't have to see your ridiculous responses, better yet, I'm putting you on ignore. What research? T Boone wants to convert everything to natty, maybe you can espouse your 4 year thesis to him. It would take at least 10 years to transition to another supply source other than gas and where you got 4 years is beyond me unless it was from your butt just like everything else you post. The only thing your posts have are a lot of hot air, maybe you can transform that into a new energy source since you have plenty.
To be honest people like you make me sick as you have no agenda other than to berate. That being said, I'm tired of people like you that troll these boards to be nothing but irritants.
I'm a little taken aback by your myopic view only what you can see + hear today? The world is a tad more complex + looking straight ahead without looking to the sides can be dangerous to your portfolio.
What I stated wasn't an opinion but fact. Obama did try to pass cap + trade and failed. Obama is a staunt advocate of green tech + spent 1/2T of tax payer dollars + was at solyndra for its inauguration. They went BK by the way, thank you obama. The total we have spent on green shoots is unknown but well over a trillion. He has made it his mission for alt energy + has been on the stump touting solar. He stated when elected that the US would lead the way in this investment. Our solar companies are all in the red + China sells over 80% of all solar panels + wind turbines. So much for US leadership in alt energy and the billions we've spent. He stopped keystone, he stopped drilling in the gulf, + he's directed the EPA to scrutinize fracking and place further constraints on the refiners through further regulation and controls. As an investor in this segment, along with investments in drillers, I care about what's happening on the hill and what they do does impact us.
I do that's why I came up with 1.05 while they had 1.20. I was also closer to the numbers over the past year. Do I think they know what they're doing, no + the proof is always in the numbers. Why do over 65% of the companies beat estimates because its a shell game + they're moving the shells. They can't predict crude prices today let alone 2 years from now. Look at earnings for the 1st, 2nd and the year, they're all up again and yet the stock price went down. Before its all said + done they will be well over 5/share for the year, another 1BB in net profit.
As for the political drivel, sorry but it is what I believe. Maybe I did paint an extreme but the general thrust is there. We can all be naive but the fact is obama did push cap + trade + backed off for political back lash. Once he gets reelected he won't care about back lash + we will see some form of it one way or another. That will have a major impact on refiner's, to what degree we'll just have to wait + see. Using ethanol is another example of a failed policy. The only losers are us. We lose cheap corn that costs as much to produce as it saves in energy. Solar, based on its own merits oil will need to quadruple to make it viable. Will all this happen over night no. Will it happen within 4 years, possible.
Here's my POV. What you or I believe is irrelevant. What is happening before our eyes and ears is what is important. And there is absolutely nothing to back up your beliefs except an ideology. And guess what that's worth - nothing.
Mario. Yes. The world is a tad more complex. Obama can stop whatever he wants all it will do is create gasoline lines at the pump. To change to another source of energy takes more than 4 years. You are speaking ignorantly. The infrastructure is set up for gasoline and diesel fuel. Migrating from crude oil and its distillates to something new like fuel cells is going to take at least 30+ years. So stop talking foolishly because you haven't done your research.
You act like this is the only time the fed made an unproductive investment in energy companies. What about the 30 years of pouring money into shale and other unconventional oil recovery? How many billions of $, how many companies, and whole communities formed around them, came and went bust in that huge spending binge?
You repubs have very selective memories.
Its not worth getting into politics but cap + trade 2 years ago was alive + well + the refiner's were justfiably terrified of its enactment. They would have to have credits for their emissions as well as credits for those entities that used their resultant energy. Basically, it would have done 2 things, forced major closures of US based refining as it would be uneconomical to produce in the states, + forced gas/distillate imports from countries that don't have cap + trade. Bottom line, gas/diesel prices in the US would have soared. Regardless of the political aisle you sit on, your + my investment in refining would have gone up in a puff of diesel smoke.