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CLRS Message Board

  • claruswatch claruswatch Oct 19, 2001 8:32 AM Flag

    follow-up please

    a couple of people posted messages here in teh past several days predicting a run-up in price, based on technical factors. Obviously, the run-up did not occur. I'd like to see an explanation of why this didn't happen - just curious as to why the miss. I'm not a technical investor, but I'm always curious about the patterns and behaviors.

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    • Fish...:

      After reading the glorious testimonials from recent posters who claim that some good sales people left, I have come to the conclusion that I would rather read from IP's " rose colored " vision, than the welder's glass colored prose coming forth from what to me appear to be recent ex-Clarus employees, who quite understandably might and would have an axe to grind.

      The bottom line folks is that the sales people did not sell much of anything during Q3, period. As I posted before, those who did not perform need to find something else to do. None of us, including Clarus employees have a constitutional right for a high salary without the requisite performance.

      Fish as to your question of curiousity, please provide verifiable facts to support your statement regarding Clarus direct sales reps " selling the same product for up to $ 500k when a reseller is selling it for less than $ 30k. " Are you sure that they are indeed the same product. Is the $ 500 K a site or clientwide license fee ? Is the $ 30 K for one work station only, or perhaps it might have a time use limitation ? Somehow, it would seem to me that these are different products.

      If, however, what you claim as being the same product, is true then the entire direct sales force is deluding themselves. The Clarus management team might not have an over abundance of keen business intellect, but they surely are smart enough not to attempt your scenario.

      JMHO

      Tex

    • Having read Indulgence's posts for some time, his rose colored glasses will never let him recognize the realities of this company.

      Another poster raised the issue of resellers offering Clarus Products for pennies on the dollar. I am curious how a direct sales rep explains selling the same product for up to $500K when a reseller is selling it for less than $30K.

    • Indulgence, good sense would suggest you and other "old timers" on this board, back off and listen for awhile. Did it occur to you that some of these new posters are recent ex-employees of Clarus that may know details you can only guess at? As you try to read press releases and other such contrived "tea leaves" these people may have seen the real deal.

      As to exit of sales people, call Clarus and ask about a senior sales executive named Mark Schultz.

      Just a thought.

    • indulgence_personified indulgence_personified Oct 21, 2001 10:25 PM Flag

      Cut and post error, one paragraph should read like this instead:

      And I'll add another tidbit of evidence. cynicalfool2 has gone 3-4 months without posting (under that moniker, at least), this after posting multiple times per day when he/she was last seen on the board. However, after I call him out, he responds as laforeever with message #37119 then cynicalfool2, heretofore not seen on this board for months, responds right after that with message #37120. Imagine that.

    • indulgence_personified indulgence_personified Oct 21, 2001 10:20 PM Flag

      How the gist of my recent rants have been misconstrued is a real head-scratcher given that I have stated my position clearly on the subject.

      The issue at hand is *not* what Clarus is or isn't doing. Therefore I don't give a howdy flip if "one of the most positive sales people just left". Conversely, even if Jack Welch or Bill Gates were to step in as Clarus CEO tomorrow that would be a non-issue as well.

      The issue here is .......let me spell it out.... c-r-e-d-i-b-i-l-i-t-y.

      I want all opinions, good or bad. Substantive opinions only, though. Don't you? And to get that I have to separate the substance from the bullshit.

      Apparently you've decided to just ignore the evidence I've given below and instead interject "just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are the same person". If they're not, I'd like to see your evidence to the contrary. However, after I call him out, he responds as laforeever with message #37119 then cynicalfool2, heretofore not seen on this board for months, responds right after that with message #37120. Imagine that.

      And I'll add another tidbit of evidence. cynicalfool2 has gone 3-4 months without posting (under that moniker, at least), this after posting multiple times per day when he/she was last seen on the board.

      I have no problem if more than one person disagrees with me. I have no problem if every person on the planet who owns a computer with a modem disagrees with me. And I won't go off on them if a negative opinion is issued from someone who is GENUINE. I think my response to perfectfilly's rather negative first post a few weeks ago is evidence (there's that "evidence" word again) of that. Perfectfilly is someone whom seems genuine to me, although a few of her statements were in error and were corrected by someone who I know for a fact is an authority on the matter. They were small errors though and do not materially detract from the essence of her message, which although negative, was appreciated by me.

      On the other hand, if a bullshit artist is exposed beyond a reasonable doubt I am in his face and I'll stay there. Do you think it really bothers me when a bullshit artist can only respond by calling me vulgar and juvenile?

    • mygafilly:

      If Clarus lost as you put it " one of the most positive sales people ", I must say that I wish him well in his pursuits of " other opportunities ". The 10/02/01 CC with its huge shortfall in revenue, leads me to believe that the direct sales force was not up to the job. I believe in results. If the indirect sales channels such as Great Plains get the job done, so be it.

      Do not misunderstand me, I am not a big fan of the current management team, that is I strongly believe the large majority of the executive team is just as responsible for the revenue miss, and many of them should pursue other opportunities. I have a tough time seing how the BOD can justify 12 + vp's, evp's, etc. for a revenue stream of $ 1 million a month.

      JMHO

      Tex

    • Well I have been watching this board for quite some time and have enjoyed the "banter".

      For heavens sakes Indulgence, be a big boy, just because more than one person disagrees with you, doesn't mean they are the same person.

      Also, one of the most positive sales people just left Clarus to go to a start up. He was the manager for the east coast. It's quite a loss for Clarus. Guess he's one of the ones that found an other opportunity. My guess is as the others find opportunites they will leave as well.

      Someone needs to put some sense into Steve Jeffery. Now I know he only has a hardware background but you'd think he would have the mental capacity to learn what it takes to sell software. Just my opinion.

    • indulgence_personified indulgence_personified Oct 20, 2001 11:41 PM Flag

      Tex, laforeever and cynicalfool are the same person.

      The trademark "Hi," at the beginning of some of their posts gives it away. Not to mention their deceptive b.s. and identical writing style. http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=9133420&tid=clrs&sid=9133420
      &mid=35477


      Remember this post from earlier this year? It's the same thing that's happening now.....I call him out for his b.s., give links to his previous messages and he makes up yet another story to cover his ass. http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=9133420&tid=clrs&sid=9133420
      &mid=35559


      Now he denies he uses an alias. More b.s.

      I'm not a sunshine pumper. I have always said I'll listen to dissenting opinions. But I will not listen to bullshit artists. He is worthless.

    • IP and Claruswatch:

      After reading the posts from laforeever starting with his/her response to claruswatch, I have come to the conclusion that you two, myself and apparently many others have it all wrong.

      Laforeever must be a genius. From his/her post, # 37097, he/she tells us that the applications sold by Clarus are worth 15k - 20k. Any company, that wants to buy a Clarus application has already checked in with laforeever to determine the value of such an application to any potential buyer. For that matter, it would appear that he/she is so smart, that he/she knows exactly what is in the best interest of any and all businesses in this country. He/she must so smart that the likes of Bill Gates and Larry Ellison make periodic pilgrimages to the estate of laforeever for further guidance on how to price software packages.

      And here is another brilliant comment in his/her response to claruswatch. " Forget the technical aspect " And how about " ... the entire N American sales force has gone two quarters without any sales... " followed by " I have friends at Clarus and they tell me the entire sales force is desparate to get out of Clarus. " If it is true, that the sales force has fallen short, they clearly need to find something else to do. Which is why I agree with Clarus' latest cut back in personnel, though I strongly feel that at least six to eight of the vp's and other high ranking individuals listed on their web page, ought to be let go as well. ( But that is a discussion for another day )

      JMHO

      Tex

    • Hi,
      You obviously have never sold software. Epicore sells the application for as much as their customers are willing to pay, which is approximately 15k-20k. Clarus is out trying to sell the same application for 100's of thousand of dollars. GP will go to their customers and set a different price which they think their customers will pay.

      I never mentioned a dollar amount that GP would be trying to get for the application. I said that GP sells an ERP suite for 30k and I said what Epicor is selling the Clarus application for, but never what GP will sell it for.

      You need to improve your reading skills and comprehension, may I suggest Hooked on Phonics.

      Finally, I have not changed my moniker so you are once again confused as to who I am.

      I have read your comments over the last few years and have always been amazed how clueless you are when it comes to investing and the realities of Clarus.

      For what it is worth, Good Luck, you will need it.

      Cheers

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