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Tyco International Ltd. Message Board

  • gordoncrk gordoncrk Jun 27, 2002 9:04 AM Flag

    One nation, under Allah

    Don't like that?

    How about "one nation under Jehova"? Or "one nation under Budda"? Or I have an idea, "one nation under Zeus, Jupiter, Neptune and Poseidan". We could have a rotation, each day of the month a different god inserted and maybe throw in a few days with no god inserted at all for the atheists and agnostics or people of faith that just don't want god mixed up in their pledge of allegiance.

    Those of you who hate the circuit court's pledge of allegiance decision, honestly confront your feelings about these recommendations.

    No, you don't like the idea.

    Because you know it is commonly understood that the word "God" in this country means your Christian God. And it explicitly means a monotheistic god. And it explicity means non-atheism.

    The reason why the courts exist is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. It does not matter how small that minority is. Forcing a non-christain to listen to the pledge in its current form each day is a kind of tyranny. You might not like it that atheists, Buddists, etc. live in this country, but when children of these people are forced to listen to a state-sanctioned address to start the day every morning that include the words "under God" a clear message is being sent that if they don't believe in God in the same way the phrase is intended, then they are second class citizens.

    That is anti-american.

    But, if you feel it is important for your children to say the pledge each day, god and all, there is very, very simple solution: have them say it at home.

    No, you don't like that idea either. The whole point is to have it proclaimed to your God (wink, wink, we all know which God we are talking about here) from the mountain tops "we bow to you".

    Please. Don't insult our intelligence.

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • if you don't want to say "under God" than don't say it you twit! You'll have to deal with your unbelief later when God asks you why you didn't believe in him, but don't be an idiot now and try to impose your stupid views on the rest of the country. Be a consciencious objector to the two words that you so vehemently oppose and say the rest. Bug off..

    • Get a grip!

      This nation was founded as a nation under God.

      The framers of the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution were heavily influenced by God and the Bible. If you don't believe me, then check your history books or any of the writings by these men.

      As a child (or adult for that matter), it is important to make a pledge to this country which was founded under God. If you don't want to make a pledge to living in this country with the freedoms that it provides because of the history and Godly principles upon which it was founded, as harsh as this may sound... find another country. I suspect you will have a harder time convincing them that you would like to modify their pledge.

      You are free to live here, but please understand what has made this country the greatest country in the world... not men, not religion, not military... it was God. The God whom the majority of this country prays for on a daily basis for peace and prosperity. Recommend this post if you do this.

      God Bless America!

      BTW - What is next... are we going to reissue all coins and currency to remove "In God We Trust".

      God Save Us!

      • 2 Replies to xiltera
      • You better read your history and read what Jefferson wrote to the House of Burgesses about not attending church . He essentially said you have a right to believe or not believe. In 1954 Ike you remeber him the bald guy who had Crusade in EUrope ghostwritten for him Stuck this in . WE have a separation of Church and State the UnderGod does not seperate Curch and state. I dont like the under God , Under Allah Under any Poohbah, I will never oppose your right to worship as please. You can have a silent prayer anytime. And I get get as sick as you do when I see those Muslims being supersitious in Public. You have a right to attend church or not attend church. I would object strongly if they put in a nation "with no God" also. I think they made the right choice. P s Study the Deist movement in the colonial period Tell me about Franklin and Jefferson and what big Christians they were.

    • The constitution, not the courts, exist to protect the minority against the majority. The courts uphold the constitution. I believe the founders meant God as God- not particularly a Christian God. You are probably right that the constitution is anti-atheist. So are most americans. If you don't like that, there is always Cuba.

    • you say

      "The reason why the courts exist is to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. It does not matter how small that minority is. "
      this is flawed retoric... if a minority can be any size, who makes up the majority? A minority can thus be everyone. As it stands now, minorities are really special interests bound together by common opposition to ANYTHING. They can be of color, with or without money, homes, taste, intelligence, education, ethnic, religion, common sense, etc.

      Again, political correctness run absolutely amok. taste this.

    • " How about "one nation under Jehova"? Or "one nation under Budda"? Or I have an idea, "one nation under Zeus, Jupiter, Neptune and Poseidan". We could have a rotation, each day of the month a different god inserted and maybe throw in a few days with no god inserted at all for the atheists and agnostics or people of faith that just don't want god mixed up in their pledge of allegiance. "


      I know I promised but....

      MAYBE what we need to do is set up schools for atheists, since for everyone else, "God" can be generic - if you spell it with a small "g".

      Then everyone should be satisfied.

    • "But, if you feel it is important for your children to say the pledge each day, god and all, there is very, very simple solution: have them say it at home". You post.

      Then why not have then learn history or whatever language one want to speak at home. Why should you Enlish language or your point of view on World War II be foreced on people of German or Japanese Culture.

      Schools should be a market places of ideas. All ideas. Have classes on both GOD & Allah and let the market place decide. Law of supply & demand rule.

      Speaking of schools, what a mess. Home schooled children score much higher on SAT tests. Why?

      You have the right to fight for what you believe.

      The issue here is not religon, because man created religon. The issue is GOD. No one has to believe what we hear, we have free choice.

      Let public schools be a place for market place of all ideas according to the law of supply and demand. If you want to impose YOUR will, lets dump the public schools as we know then and let each student go to the school of their choice.

      • 1 Reply to mirtocap
      • For all the God haters that want to lead their children, along with themselves to hell, here is a simple solution. Dont say the God part, there is no one holding an ear to you and forcing you to say any of it. Its a free country and I have yet to hear of a case where a public school forced a kid to say under God. What you people really fear is that your children will come home asking tough questions like, who is God and why dont we go to church. Then you will have to break out the monkey routine, "Junior, we in this family believe that we evolved from monkies". Oh, by the way, they teach that crap in school, and none of you hypocrytical God haters whine about that.

    • The Circuit Court involved is the most highly overturned in the land. The Supreme Court will view "Under God" as part of our tapestry, and not unconstitutional. Give it a rest you God hating moron.

      What you need is a little religion in your pathetic life.

    • I have already heard this argument and there is only one problem with it.

      While yes our Constitution was written that the government would not force or establish any religion on anyone, it does NOT change the fact that our very country was founded on Christian beliefs, not Jewish, not Buddhism, not Muslim, not Athiest etc.

      For a dissenting few individuals to try and change the very foundation of our country is
      obsurd and should not be tolerated regardless of your own religious preferences.

      If our country's fundamentals is something you can't live with then by all means feel free to move to Isreal, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, India, China, etc., I certainly don't want you to feel uncomfortable.

      • 4 Replies to puggybw
      • Puggy,

        Since yours is the only half-way intelligent response to my post, let me comment on this point of yours:

        "For a dissenting few individuals to try and change the very foundation of our country is
        obsurd and should not be tolerated regardless of your own religious preferences."

        The words "under God" were added to the pledge by Eisenhower in the 50's as tawdry bit of political pandering. Hardly the sort of thing that represents "the foundation of our country" I should hope.

        God is not the foundation of our country. Liberty is.

        As for the "establishement" issue and how state sponsored pledge should not be construed as such, notice how many posters have invited me to leave the country if I don't like having the word "God" in the pledge of allegiance, and how the rudest version of this invitation has garnered the most recommendations. Ah, yes, the favorite arguement of smug, intolerant majorities everywhere.

        I don't see how my point about the tyranny of the majority could be made any more plainly.

      • I'm with ya.

 
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