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Intel Corporation Message Board

  • flumoxed11 flumoxed11 Sep 10, 2011 11:10 AM Flag

    Here's the disaster in a nutshell

    At the time of Bush, Paulsen and Tarp,
    the collapse of mortgage loans, the decision
    to bail out the banks was made. Obama inherited
    the mortgage mess as well as this policy mess.
    He also now has to contend with the entrenched tea-bag know-nothing deranged Tim McVeigh terrorists who are blocking any shift in policy away from continued
    doling of $$ to the banking system and the Koch brothers.

    Now emerges the next problem that our banks are intimately tied by paper to European banks. Europe is seeing the collapse of its social system that has made vast commitments to people in pensions, medical, etc. Europe is also far less productive than US. These have gone way underwater, and are further dragging down our banks into this bad paper, creating negative reserves, our banks are now even deeper underwater and have further inability to make loans into our system.

    Furthermore our state and local governments are financially collapsed. Greece and Illinois are quite similar.. many people retired, large pensions, insufficient money to cover commitments, collapse of tax base, real estate values, etc.

    This drag is causing the whole US economy to further slow due to a lack of available lubrication loans to fund economic activity and consumerism.

    The Fed has no direct access to the common people because of these "trickle down" policies. In the meantime, bankers, hedgefunders, Koch brothers, etc, continue to profit like drug dealers.

    IMO, at the time of Bush/Paulsen we should have allowed the banks to fail. The Fed should have created a direct window to the US citizens. The loans by the Fed should have gone to main street directly thru this window. Bailing out GM and GE is a good thing..bailing out BAC and C is a disaster.

    The Obama jobs act is essential. It is an attempt to directly transfer $500B to the people. This is essential to get the economy running, and may cost several trillion $ overall. But it is definitely the right thing to do. It is consistent with the notion of Fed underwriting mortgage refinancing for the underwatered people.

    But, throw on top of this massive larger problems like global warming (yes, cassandra, it is human induced), international terrorism, Iran has nukes, baby boomers hitting retirment age, massive famine in Africa, basically all the stuff of 10 billion people living on a rock that can only support 3 billion, etc. etc. and you have the PERFECT HURRICANE,TORNADO,EARTHQUAKE.

    That's what you folks are experiencing.

    Ok, will INTC survive? Will any stocks or paper survive? Will any of our human structures survive? The Tea-bags are people punching more holes in the hull of our sinking ship.

    There is only ONE possible solution...government doing the right thing..spending on the people to enable human activity to regenerate a functional system. This is why the Obama plan is a small step in the right direction...but we need a forced march in that direction. If ever there was a time to come together as a unit it is now. This is not for the billionaires...this is for us and our kids.

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    • the obama job act is never going to pass.

      He delibreatly set enough poisin into it to force Congress to vote it down. That is his #1 spring board into re-election. It is for fools like you who do not understand history, psychology and the economy.

      • 3 Replies to stark2424246
      • You will hear BO talking about how the GOP voted against this bill for the next year and a hlaf. It will be his prime campaign nugget.

      • OK, nimrod, let's talk about the economy.

        The national debt is about 15 Trillion $.
        That's about $6 Trillion of "internal debt",
        what the govt owes itself, mostly borrowing from
        the SS trust fund, plus about $9 Trillion of
        public debt, what we owe Japan, China, UK, Eurozone,
        widows, orphans, universities, etc. (china is one of many..china has about $ 0.8 T of our PD, so
        they are not the lion's share; the lion's share is mostly all US public debt)

        The $9 trillion would be zero today if we had kept the Clinton taxes. But your guy, W, decided to cut those taxes for his rich friends, invade Afghanistan, invade Iraq, and then cut some more, and then launched TARP and then there are the Obama
        damage control costs of this depression we are now in. So our PD is $9 T instead of 0..thanks mostly to W.

        The Gross domestic product is also about $15 T.
        That means we have a gross debt ratio of
        $15/$15 = 1. We have an "external" or "public debt" ratio of about $9/$15 = 0.6.

        To make an analogy..if you earned $100K per year and carried a $100k mortgage your external debt ratio would be $100k/$100K = 1. If you alos owed your wife $40K, your total debt ratio would be 140/100 = 1.4.

        I don't think any household with such a debt ratio would be considered "extreme" or financially at risk. IF your salary was risky, then yes, you would be at risk becasue your debt ratio could suddenly go from 1 to $100K/0 = infinity.


        GOT IS SO FAR?

        Our national problem now is to stimulate the growth of our "salary" because chipping away at all of this mostly W debt is a harder problem. The analogy is that the guy with a $100K salary must invest in himself and his job. He needs to have the necessary equipment, training, suits and ties, automobile, computers, job related travel and entertainment costs, etc. required to effectively do his job. So, YOU MUST INVEST TO MAINTAIN AND INCREASE YOUR SALARY. Even if you had zero debt you would have to do this.

        Now consider the inanity of the republicans. First, they got us deeply into this mess of having a lot of debt (even though a public debt ratio of 0.6 really isn't that critical) and now THEY ARE BLOCKING ANY ATTEMPT TO INVEST TO INCREASE OUR GDP, EG OUR SALARY.

        Obama's jobs act is an essential investment to drive the economy and increase our GDP. There will be multipliers here...if we spend $1 we usually get $3 back in increased GDP.

        That will drive our GDP down..making the problem much worse.

        Get it?

        probably not.

      • you are the one who doesn't understand history, psychology and the economy. I'll not call you a fool. You are hopelessly xenophobic.

    • over population is not a problem.

      If you want to consider hydroponics....

      Or look at the population in 2000. IF all people were moved to N. America in 2000, each would have 4 acres and the rest of the world would be empty. That is 16 acres for a family of four. Why can't you accept this as enough room?

    • <<But, throw on top of this massive larger problems like global warming (yes, cassandra, it is human induced), >>

      Again, you are settling an opinion on hewadlines instead of facts.

      The IPCC had nearly 3000 scientists contribute information to their first project. The resulting paper edited out about 80% of that information becasue of the IPCC mission statement which states they are only intersted in information conserning "human-induced climate change." Over half of the contributing scientists were upset and never contributed again. Some interesting postscripts are found in a book by Horner called Red Hot Lies.

      If you look at Gore's video and freeze frame his two charts on the wall of CO2 and temp, you can use a straight edge to find out why he did not over lay them! This truth is due to the way CO2 effects blackbody radiation. There are only three band widths near 2.3mu, 4.7mu and 15mu out of a range of 2mu to 70mu radiation that are effected. Those three frequencies are totally blocked and cutting the amount of atmosphereic CO2 in half will have NO affect.

      Your faith in the politicical liberal headlines is desturbing.

    • All your side needs is evidence for their thinking.

      Can you show us how socialist moves have actually helped nations? I'm not talking about hw the USSR helped the US in the arms race by loosing.

      In the past 7,000 yrs, every nation that has fallen has been built up through moves that side with capitalism and have taken steps that mirror socialistic government involvement prior to collapsing. Can you find one example of a nation that did not pander to the poor for power before falling?

      The moves by Bush that failed were socialistic. Moving farther left is not the anwser.

      The economy after Bush sent out the $600 checks (socilaism) showed investing was down about 14% and GDP was around 1%. After the tax rate cuts (allowing more room for capitalism even with the watered down final rate) investing was up 12% and GDP tripled to near 4%.

      So many more examples to disprove your headlines only view of the economy.

      • 1 Reply to stark2424246
      • I guess you need some basics about the American Revolution. I suggest you read 1776 by McCullough or a good G. Washington biography.

        At the time, the southern "republicans" such as Jefferson considered the creation of the federal government to be unacceptable meddling and socialism (partially because they already sensed their slavery system would be overturned, and they also foresaw that they would have to submit some of their freedoms to a central government that would do things only governments can do).

        Washington was one of them, but became Commander in Chief of the Continental Army. Over the 8 year conflict he came to realize that NOT having a Federal government would be a couldn't pay the troops or supply the army..etc etc. you needed a central bank, a treasury, etc etc... all the stuff you slobs are objecting to.

        So Washington flipped and became a Federalist.
        Frankly, Jefferson was a tea bagger of his day, and he was glorified over the past 200 years by southern historians who are pushing a kinder gentler tea bag agenda..the real architects of the US constitution and democracy were Adams and Franklin(northern liberals).

        Bottom line: The US democracy created in the late 1700's IS SOCIALISM!!! What you cave dwellers want is to go back to a primitive tribal hunter gatherer society (so you can shoot and stew up coons and keep slaves).

        This tea-bag crapola is 99% IGNORANCE of what this country is. It is not laisse-faire freedom. It has a government that rules by laws, and you and I do not evr agree with all of it, but we're lucky to have it. The fact is, you have to understand it to appreciate it, but few of the tea baggers can find New jersey on the map, use toilet paper, and understand our system. The only mistake the founding fathers made was granting the right to vote to you toothless moonshiners.

    • 'basically all the stuff of 10 billion people living on a rock that can only support 3 billion'

      You just don't have the right to tell another human being that they don't have the right to exist. This is the extreme arrogance of the whole socialist liberal AGW movement which would rather preserve a vicious bear and some ice than allow other human beings the resources to exist. Remove all taxation/subsidies from renewable and biofuels and let natural resources decide what the planet can hold in terms of humans and not have it arbitrarily dictated like some sort of Soviet 5-year plan. The AGW movement is some sort of 1984 nightmare come true and the population has sadly fallen for it with all the false horror stories that have been concocted to support it.

      • 1 Reply to marsavian
      • great point

        <<Soviet 5-year plan>>

        We need to remind the political liberal what happened in the USSR. Near the end, they allowed farmers to work 10% of the land for profit as long as they also continued to farm the remaining 90% as ussual. 50% of their food came from 10% of the land!!

        It's explained through psychology and the human will.

    • "throw on top of this massive larger problems like global warming (yes, cassandra, it is human induced)"

      The only problem with 'global warming' is the trillions of expense that will be wasted on 'clean' energy to fix a 'problem' that doesn't need fixing. All the fossil fuels on this planet will be burned eventually, the long term effect on this planet will be about 0.5-1c not 5+c temperature rise because the mythical positive water vapor feedback mechanisms in all these flawed climate models just don't exist in the real world. A rise of 1c or even 2c would not even be a bad thing in the long run if it
      could alleviate future Ice Ages. Plant growth could also benefit from a higher CO2 level i.e. greenhouse effect.

      This whole AGW movement is the biggest waste of money and time mankind has ever perpetrated on itself. It's just bad incomplete science leading to corrupt individuals/companies seeking to profit from otherwise unprofitable business models via extra taxation and credits. WTH is 'green' about massive Ice sheets anyway and excessive concern over carnivorous white bears who eat humans when presented with the opportunity.

      Environmentalists have got their values totally skewed in any long-term perspective, the climate as we have it now is not 'green' at all but part of a long term Ice Age and is not worth spending a cent to preserve. Remember Greenland was named because it once was green and not covered with ice which should tell you natural temperature variations more than swamp any changes we see now.

      Subsidized Biofuels are also helping to cause the world famines.

    • "The Obama jobs act is essential. It is an attempt to directly transfer $500B to the people."

      It's an attempt to transfer our money - and our children's debt - to teachers, construction union members, government workers and other political favorites who comprise a tiny, tiny portion of our workforce.

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