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Intel Corporation Message Board

  • ltisteve@verizon.net ltisteve Dec 2, 2011 3:27 PM Flag

    Windows 8/ARM/Breaking News

    Bad news for the ARM fans. This just out as of yesterday. Windows 8 for ARM WILL NOT have the desktop. All the talk about x86 extensions for ARM all adds up to a big fat zero. No matter how you slice it, the rich legacy program market will be off limits to ARM.

    Paul O started letting the cat out of the bag last week. The problem with ARM processors is that Microsoft will have to recompile Windows code for each ARM processor. I believe the x86 way around this was to use the BIOS.

    The ARM experience for Windows will be for the newer 'Metro Apps.' Again, my question is, why? Why would you want to write an app that you don't currently have hardware for to test it? I would go right to HTML5 and bypass the Microsoft and Apple stores if I were a programmer.

    OTHER NEWS:

    Windows 8 Beta delayed until late March.

    This is probably a good thing. There are some fantastic aspects of Windows 8. And also some really stupid ideas. They need time to sort them out. First and foremost the average PC user doesn't want a phone experience on a PC. It's fine on a tablet. This my largest gripe. The dream at Microsoft is that you can have the same user experience from PC, tablet, phone, and XBox. That pig ain't gonna fly.

    My other gripe is the app stores of Apple (iTunes) and Microsoft. As a developer you should have a right to market your apps for iOS and Metro on third party websites. If Microsoft really wants WARM to succeed, they need to allow Metro apps to be sold outside of their marketplace. Until they change this provision, I wouldn't write metro apps for either ARM or x86.

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    • ltisteve@verizon.net ltisteve Dec 3, 2011 10:40 AM Flag

      This has been one of the side benefits of the new smarthone technology is improved graphics across the board. These Atom phones and tablets are going to be amazing.

      One winner that Microsoft has that most people overlook is their Media Center. You can record TV and rip movies and save them. If you have an Xbox you can watch the content. You can also watch it on Windows based PC's with Vista or later. This will be a selling point for Windows 8 on tablets as well.

      My wife was showing me a non HD movie on a tablet last night. It's stunning. She ripped it down to under 2gb. With a fast enough micro SD card you can load up a few movies for a trip. Another option is to record fewer movies at the higher 5gb setting, throw them onto your phone and when you get to a hotel on your trip watch the movie on their tv using their HDMI port.

      As far as gaming is concerned, there are many games that are more gpu intensive than processor intensive. Tablet gaming is only going to get better.

      If this GPU rumor is correct, Atom based smartphones are going to make a huge first impression.

    • 'AMD graphics will blow their phone graphics away'

      Power VR 6 will change that (22nm Atom SoC should also have this potent notebook class gpu)

      http://www.stericsson.com/press_releases/NovaThor.jsp

      "The Nova A9600 will also be able to play full HD video at 120 frames per second, supporting professional camcorder-quality recording in 3D, as well as high definition videoconferencing and tele-presence. The POWERVR Rogue GPU delivers in excess of 210 GFLOPS. The graphics performance of the A9600 will exceed 350 million ‘real’ polygons per second and more than 5 gigapixels per second visible fill rate (which given POWERVR’s deferred rendering architecture results in more than 13 gigapixels per second effective fill rate). Thanks to Rogue Nova will support all existing APIs such as Microsoft DirectX. The Nova A9600 is sampling in 2011."

      5-13 GP/s beats all Nvidia mobile gpus up to and including the 112 shader GeForce GT 550M which is a notebook gpu.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#GeForce_500M_.285xxM.29_series

    • Nobody is doing gaming on ARMH either. AMD graphics will blow their phone graphics awayh.

    • Nobody is doing gaming on Atom. It would have to be better than that...

    • It would be more than 2% with a working desktop mode that allowed say new PC games to be ported. The highest clocked Quad-core A15/Kraits that they could put in net/notebooks would be very competitive against dual-core Atoms and dual-core Bobcats on both performance and power. Maybe more like 4% total units (not revenue) in that situation. A MS Office port would probably add another 2% units. Available software as always is key !

    • Who cares? You're talking about 2 percent market share either way...

    • It's a when...

    • No.

      But that 'when' is still an 'if' ;-).

    • Bad news for the ARM fans. This just out as of yesterday. Windows 8 for ARM WILL NOT have the desktop. All the talk about x86 extensions for ARM all adds up to a big fat zero. No matter how you slice it, the rich legacy program market will be off limits to ARM.
      -----

      The source of this 'news' is a blog:

      http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/02/will-windows-8-for-arm-tablets-cut-the-cord-on-desktop-mode/

      Update: Paul Thurrott has just provided a bit of an update that he heard from a different source that, yes indeed, Windows 8 will include a desktop mode, even when running on ARM. Paul indicates he trusts these two sources equally, leaving us somewhat stuck in the middle.
      -----

      Regardless, the WARM mess is continuing...

      • 3 Replies to theblueredmonk
      • For Windows 8 ARM machines to have a fighting chance of competing with x86 on hardware alone it needs one of two things on the software front, either Office or new PC game releases. Both of those for the moment will need a working desktop mode. Without that, why bother with Windows 8 for only tablet use when you can get Android for free ? Without a working desktop mode, WARM is DOA. With it, matters can get interesting ;-).

      • Thanks Blue...

      • ltisteve@verizon.net ltisteve Dec 2, 2011 5:06 PM Flag

        Yes, if Paul is confused where does that leave the rest of us?

        Windows 8 has so many good ideas associated with it. But also a ton of bad ones. I did download the Build preview and wasn't that impressed.

        I think they would be better off if they simply offered a Windows 8 for x86 only which is an upgraded 7 experience. Then a separate Windows Metro x86 and ARM platform. They could make it a phone and tablet experience. It's still too early to make one united platform for PC's, tablets, and phones. Apple isn't there yet. There has to be a good reason why.

    • "The ARM experience for Windows will be for the newer 'Metro Apps.' "

      Yes... it appears that way for the initial launch
      And also appears to be on tablets... with clamshells appearing the following year...

      "my question is, why? "

      Will be 2013 before the ARM64 chips hit the street...
      Then give the developers time on it...

      The apps will come. Don't keep looking backwards on that...
      THese companies have SW/HW projects in active development that won't be available for years....

      Many laugh at 10% mkt share, but that's alot of $$ starting from nothing. The following year it grows, the following year more, etc... extend the view

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