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Intel Corporation Message Board

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk Jan 3, 2012 5:38 PM Flag

    Intel thinks Cedar Trail is a dog

    Some comedy from semiaccurate:

    The short story is that Atom has now moved in to the 32nm world, a year later than promised, under performing, priced too high, incompatible with the things users want, and with still non-functional drivers. Luckily, the main advance for the new chip, DX10.1 support, was silently removed, and almost all traces of that feature scrubbed from the new release documentation. If you want the raw numbers on the chips, the Atom N2600 and N2800, read this.

    Lets go back to the point, the utter failure of this CPU, and the Atom line for computers in general. Intel is trying to compete against ARM, and has completely failed. Quick question, name one tablet on the market with an Intel Atom CPU in it? If you can, there is one that I am aware of, try naming one Atom based tablet that has actually sold enough to pay for the system design costs? There are none.


    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/03/intel-thinks-cedar-trail-is-a-dog-reading-between-bullet-points/

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    • "The problem with the native port you speak of is that there will be more CPU cycles per computation, essentially it will be considerably slower.

      Also, as with all ARM processors, floating point will STILL underperform."

      OK, please tell us the specs for ARM64 chips in 2013...
      Or you have NO CLUE !!!!
      NONE !!!!
      ----------------

      "Windows on ARM laptops, as well as other ARM based tablets/netbooks, will find themselves in the discount section of any online brick and mortar stores. "

      Please state one discount section, anywhere, where have seen a Windows on ARM labtop...
      or you made it up !!!
      -----------------

      "ARM simply cannot compete with Intel in performance, period. "

      x86 simply cannot compete with ARM in performance/watt, period.

    • 2011 probably had them a bit concerned. The first wave of true iPad rivals all failed, miserably. It wasn't the processor that people wanted, it was the iPad itself. And sales for iPad cooled down by the third quarter.
      -----

      From the consumer point of view it has never been about the processor. The ARM CPU (and the IP business model) was (and is) simply an enabler of form factor. It enables devices such as the iPad and the smart phone. The resulting SoC is cheap to produce, reduces the BOM which makes the device cheaper and smaller. All this reduces the power draw which means a smaller/cheaper battery etc.

    • ltisteve@verizon.net ltisteve Jan 4, 2012 6:31 PM Flag

      Microsoft probably saw Apple moving phones and tablets by the boatload and realized they were backing the wrong horse with Intel. People were snapping up ARM based devices faster than they cared to admit. They saw the trend continuing and the unfortunate reality where iOS and Android running right through the PC market. They also saw that most phones and tablets had the minimum specs to run Windows. So they made what I felt was the best decision they could have made at the time which was to include ARM in the next version of Windows.

      2011 probably had them a bit concerned. The first wave of true iPad rivals all failed, miserably. It wasn't the processor that people wanted, it was the iPad itself. And sales for iPad cooled down by the third quarter.

      I still don't think it's a mistake to invite ARM to the Windows party. Who knows, maybe something will catch on? Maybe a $200 ARM based laptop running Metro apps will catch on. I don't know, a decent Intel based laptop can be found in the $300 price range.

      I'm still not certain that Windows 8 will catch on. I think the one saving grace is if they can figure out how to get 30 frames a second on Battle Field 3. It's going to take some fairly hefty hardware. Tablets could move beyond Atom and ARM fairly quickly.

    • The problem with the native port you speak of is that there will be more CPU cycles per computation, essentially it will be considerably slower.

      Also, as with all ARM processors, floating point will STILL underperform.

      ...

      ARM simply cannot compete with Intel in performance, period.
      -----

      If you are talking about core processors, then you are right. If you are talking about Atom, then you would be wrong. Floating point is much improved in the A9, and will easily beat Atom at the same clock.

    • gregory.lynn@rocketmail.com gregory.lynn Jan 4, 2012 5:52 PM Flag

      The problem with the native port you speak of is that there will be more CPU cycles per computation, essentially it will be considerably slower.

      Also, as with all ARM processors, floating point will STILL underperform.

      Windows on ARM laptops, as well as other ARM based tablets/netbooks, will find themselves in the discount section of any online brick and mortar stores.

      ARM simply cannot compete with Intel in performance, period.

    • They can go out-of-order instruction processing to increase performance but that does increase power especially in x86. Make the processor wider, 3-way, which would also increase performance and make the pipeline shorter to reduce power and clockspeed. There is a lot that can be attempted but no indication of what Intel is thinking about in terms of design strategy for 22nm. The current Atom is competitive for power consumption under 1 GHz, maybe the answer here going forward is to make it wider and fatter without increasing clockspeed.

    • Anti-Intel internet rag.

    • Intel's achilles heel is its gpu driver team or lack thereof of a competent one. I have never understood how a company as rich as Intel just can't buy the team needed not unless it doesn't take it seriously.

    • very funny read !!!!

      Can things get worse for this CPU? Sure it can. Cedar Trail was shown off behind closed doors at CES in 2011, that would be January 2011, not the show set to take place in about a week. Release was said to be imminent. It wasn’t. Cedar Trail was shown off at CeBIT in March of 2011, and release was said to be imminent. It wasn’t. Cedar Trail was officially announced at Spring 2011 IDF with 30 or so design wins. By Computex in June, all were dead, and the chip still wasn’t out. Cedar Trail was shown off at Computex in June of 2011, and release was said to be imminent. It wasn’t. I can say from first hand experience that the demos and briefings were unchanged each time, and were no more exciting on the last attempt than the first.

      With 3 days to go in 2011, the chip was finally ‘triumphantly’ released to no fanfare, and the silence was deafening. The actual part does not seem to be available yet, but that is splitting hairs, the ‘launch’ was in 2011, really. It is still too slow, still incompatible with the software people want, still has core features removed, still does not have even minimally functional drivers, and still it costs too much. When you can buy an ARM SoC that wipes the floor with Cedar Trail in performance for less than half of what Intel charges for Cedar Trail and runs the intended software correctly, why buy Intel?

    • ltisteve@verizon.net ltisteve Jan 3, 2012 6:37 PM Flag

      There is an ExoPC that has an Atom processor that is being sold at the Microsoft store. It's a 12" tablet. Yes it runs Windows 7, no Windows 7 is not a good tablet OS. It runs a N470 which is a 45NM Atom processor.

      The guy doing the demo said that he was getting about 4 hours of battery life on it. He liked reading on it, and hooking up a bluetooth keyboard and making it a poor man's laptop.

      This is one of the problems I see for Intel this year. They will have this windows of opportunity with Microsoft on Windows 8 where they will be the only processor to run it for perhaps 6 months. The Windows 8 tablet may be a hot seller at the holidays if the price is right and people want to run legacy programs.

      The larger issue is that Ultrabooks need to be sold at the same time. How will this all play out? I think Intel will delay Cloverfield until Ultrabooks start off at under $500. There will be a serious issue if Intel canalizes potential Ultrabook sales with tablets. You can say that they are two different markets, I think people will make do with a tablet at half the price.

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