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Intel Corporation Message Board

  • will_amd_yu will_amd_yu May 9, 2012 3:47 PM Flag

    The advantage that ARM had of low power and cheap is

    gone.

    What are they going to compete with.

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    • I pretty much agree with that, Bluered. Intel knows this game pretty well, and I expect continued improvements via drivers and software, but by the end of the summer, quad cores, s4s at 28nm, along with Sammy's 32nm, should top the current Medfield. What will Apple bring to the table this fall? Intel messed up by not bringing it out six months earlier. It would have easily ruled the roost, but now it will be relegated to the middle of the bus. The big picture is worth pondering, though--the ARM crowd was saying just a few months ago that Intel could not lower Atom to a competitive power envelope. Medfield completely disproves that theory. Intel is now bringing their A game to low power, and I expect the next Atom core at 22nm will be an out of order monster on performance. I suspect it will handle A15 cores with ease, but that is just a guess.
      ------

      Apple's A5 (in the iphone) runs at 800mhz so has huge scope for improvement without doing anything radical. Using Samsung's 32nm process they could simply double the clock.

      Yes, Medfield disproves the "x86 can't do low power" argument but she'll always have a transistor budget constraint V ARM simply due to legacy ISA. This is when Intel's process advantage comes into play. Atom@22nm is going to be interesting:)

    • Interesting.

      Performance in a smartphone is not really matter.

      A serious gamer likely play his game on a desktop in a comfort of his leather chair and surround sounds.

    • The Intel reference design is probably the more important commitment by Intel because it establishes a lower bar.

      Intel will aggressively price the Medfield designs to start the downward pressure on profit margins. They will continue to release more powerful designs and the time-to-market and design overhead will be attractive and tough to compete with.

      It will be interesting but Intel does not need to have (nor probably wants) the top end phone.

    • I pretty much agree with that, Bluered. Intel knows this game pretty well, and I expect continued improvements via drivers and software, but by the end of the summer, quad cores, s4s at 28nm, along with Sammy's 32nm, should top the current Medfield. What will Apple bring to the table this fall? Intel messed up by not bringing it out six months earlier. It would have easily ruled the roost, but now it will be relegated to the middle of the bus. The big picture is worth pondering, though--the ARM crowd was saying just a few months ago that Intel could not lower Atom to a competitive power envelope. Medfield completely disproves that theory. Intel is now bringing their A game to low power, and I expect the next Atom core at 22nm will be an out of order monster on performance. I suspect it will handle A15 cores with ease, but that is just a guess.

    • Bluered, the point is that Medfield is very competitive with all of the ARM offerings. Vito is specifically arguing against Atom, not the Imagination GPU. Once they get ICS on a Medfield phone, we should be able to go apples to apples. Also, the IP4s and Galaxy 3 are $700 phones, and the Xolo is a much cheaper phone. The peripheral components do make a big difference.
      -----

      While I generally agree with the above, it's about the SoC as a whole that is really important. Intel, Samsung or whoever could have the best CPU in the world but if it's not balanced with right GPU and the rest of the IP on the SoC it'll have poor 'performance'.

      As for competitive, yes and no. The lists by anandtech are rolling so new SoC's/phones typically jump to the top of the list so by the end of the summer Medfield might not even be in the top ten. As a rough rule of thumb, Medfield has better CPU performance than any A9 with a lower clock (which is most of the phones in the anandtech lists).

    • Anyway.. ARM single core is LOUSY in Performance. Take my word for that. Adding extra cores and changing benchmarks to use these cores does not change the fact that ARM is CRAP.
      -----

      If you think ARM is crap, then there is nothing I can say or show you that will change that view.

      If it was possible to have a single core A9 V a single core Atom at the same clock and same memory bandwidth on the same OS you'de find that the ARM core will beat Atom in many floating point based benchmarks. Atom would beat ARM on many Integer based benchmarks.

    • In some cases.. What about the other cases..

      Anyway.. ARM single core is LOUSY in Performance. Take my word for that. Adding extra cores and changing benchmarks to use these cores does not change the fact that ARM is CRAP.

    • Bluered, the point is that Medfield is very competitive with all of the ARM offerings. Vito is specifically arguing against Atom, not the Imagination GPU. Once they get ICS on a Medfield phone, we should be able to go apples to apples. Also, the IP4s and Galaxy 3 are $700 phones, and the Xolo is a much cheaper phone. The peripheral components do make a big difference.

    • Dude, the fact that Quad-core ARM chips significantly outperform dual-core ARM's in those benchmarks, should tell you something.

      Now go think about that.
      -----

      What else is different between the dual and quad core parts? In some cases the quads have 40% *higher* clock than the duals (1.4Ghz v 1.0Ghz) and have a *higher* memory bandwidth.

    • Also, some selective reading by :thebluemonk":

      From the article:
      (1) The browsing experience in general is very good on the SGS3, and the advantage here likely has more to do with Samsung's browser code and the fact that it's running Android 4.0.4 rather than any inherent SoC advantage.

      (2) Although (understandably) not as quick as the Snapdragon S4 based One X, the SGS3 does extremely well here - likely due in no small part to whatever browser optimizations ship in Samsung's 4.0.4 build.

      Let's wait for 4.0 on Medfield...then it will be a partly fair comparison...and it will be even more appropriate against the dual-core Medfield.
      -----

      Yes, 4.0 will make a difference to Medfield performance. Intel would have also 'tweaked' it's browser code...

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