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  • chump.weaver chump.weaver Jan 5, 2013 12:12 PM Flag

    Should you listen to Wallisweaver, Marsavian, Semi-conductor guy or Alexander D.?

    Consider by mugiebahar on Friday, January 04, 2013
    While I always enjoy reading here, I have to admit this article is not 1 of them. I'm not slinging mud or anything but rather I think it's highly subjective to consider @ this point intel is in good standing to make in roads. I agree intel has the technology/money/resources/will power to make a killer chip that sips power better then anyone. But as so many have pointed out and cannot be changed, Intel doesn't have the ability to do it for a cheap competitive price. ARM has always will always be better in that. It's all about how a company is built. ARM doesn't need to finance a foundry much less several like intel. With over head and size comes problems changing business models, especially in manufacturing. The thing is while we don't know yet what the future holds as to the amount of things we will do on a phone, I can guarantee I won't be ripping a DVD, making CAD drawings on it. So fundamentally we will hit a wall that the cost is not worth the money. Am I wrong? While I know what the article is pointing to, which is a strong class leading, watt sipping intel. But they cannot win or be as noteworthy as the article points out. You can't ask a company to devalue their products, Why? Because you lose either because 1) you look desperate or 2) you acknowledge that you where ripping people off before. While they may have had legitimate reasons for pricing, or that technology brought prices down its perception that's the killer. Is Atom bad? No. But ask regular joe, he'll tell you it's #$%$ but why? Price and perception. Intel did something's right and sme wrong. They should have realized a while back desktops were good enough and push mobile chips to the better lower cost production. But now a company so heavy on top can switch just like that. Now ether they will have to restructure to be competitive in the mobile arena or just play second fiddle. But they can't right now (unless they change) be a mobile king as they are on the desk top only because of company structure nothing else.

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    • ARM may not pay for the foundries but their vendors do by the price added on to the wafers to cover process development costs. Intel's mobile Atom chips are on fully depreciated n-1 process wafers already paid for by the PC chips. Like Otellini warned, Medfield will not be beaten on price and you better believe it because Intel's yields are among the best if not the best in the semi industry. East and his cocky ARMy has awakened a pleasantly sleeping 800lb Gorilla and he is not very happy about it and is charging his way full force now lol. Ask AMD how that story turns out in the end, a stock price that went from $42 to $2 in only a few years ;-).

    • ntel PR by UpSpin on Friday, January 04, 2013
      Intel PR, nothing more.
      This article is misleading, confusing and compares totally different things. It's a shame to see such a bad written article on Anandtech, full with meaningless, misleading, graphs, which just sit there, without any further descriptive text. If a image isn't worth some text, it isn't worth to get shown at all!

      1. There's no use in showing and even comparing Total Power Consumption numbers, because the systems are totally different. So don't show them! Everything else is misleading, most probably on purpose because the absolutely low-end Intel device looks good in this comparison, logically. But please, if you can't compare things, don't try to compare them. And if you can't compare them, also don't further use such numbers, like in Task Energy Total Platform. It's useless.
      You can't measure Qualcomm chips correctly, thus include Total Platform power draw? Poor excuse. If you can't measure it, don't post it, but don't post false and misleading numbers.
      2. What is Average Power Draw? What's the use of it? You don't use those graphs in your Article at all! Do you know what this means? Exactly: Those graphs are useless and meaningless. Why do you post them? They are redundant because of the Energy graphs. So naturally, because of the much shorter run time of the A15 SoC, the Average graph looks disadvantageous for ARM, which is simply misleading. But well Intel is probably happy you posted hit and thanked you with cash, why else should a sane person post such misleading stuff.
      3. GPU Power: What game? How did it run? Off-Screen? The same resolution on every tablet? The same API? The same FPS? It's not surprising that a low-end GPU struggling to keep maybe 10FPS consumes less power than a high-end GPU displaying 60FPS at a higher resolution. You haven't said anything about this issue, yet happily compare meaningless numbers.

      I'm sorry but this article is, right now, garbage. And the only reason for posting such a poor written article is that Intel must have paid you a lot of money for doing so.

      It's nice that you post such semi-scientifical articles, but the way you do in this case isn't great.
      This article is very very hard to read, because the reader has to do ALL the interpretation.
      You could remove 2/3 of all graphs, and the article would contain the same information.
      By just looking at the graphs Intel is the overall winner, which is, if you do some further comparisons based on your article wrong. At most Intel is, according to your graphs, on par with A15, CPU wise, which still is a nice outcome for Intel.
      The GPU is awful in the Intel SoC, the CPU competive.
      The A15 GPU is perfect, the CPU at least as efficient as the Intel one, but much faster.
      Yet, because the article is so confusing and I don't want to waste any further time doing the work a good writer should have done, I see ARM as the clear winner.
      Same or more efficient CPU, much faster CPU, much better GPU, overall winner!
      Similar argumentation for Tegra and Krait.
      Intel has a good CPU, but the SoC looks awful.

      • 2 Replies to chump.weaver
      • What;s this guy's problem, doesn't he have the intelligence to read a graph which BTW all revealed great granular information about all the cpu and gpus.

        1. Total powe rconsumptions is very useful, it rwlls you wat your device is like when all the rubber hits the roasf. Only fanbois only interested ins coring points would not be interewsted like this clown. The only thing that ids garbage about this artcile is his stupid uninformned cpomments at the bottom of it.

        'The A15 GPU is perfect, the CPU at least as efficient as the Intel one, but much faster.'

        LOL on all fronts. The PowerVR 544MP2 coming in Clovertrail+ (Z2580) will destroy the Mali T604 and at much lower power. A15 burns at least twice as much power as Atom and is sometimes beaten by it in benchmarks !

        'I see ARM as the clear winner'

        Yeah sure it is fanboi, keep the faith LOL !

      • RE: Intel PR by powerarmour on Friday, January 04, 2013
        "I see ARM as the clear winner.
        Same or more efficient CPU, much faster CPU, much better GPU, overall winner!
        Similar argumentation for Tegra and Krait.
        Intel has a good CPU, but the SoC looks awful."

        That was exactly my conclusion reading through it, I just couldn't be bothered to be eloquent enough to explain it like that as it seemed obvious to me.

        I look at the SoC as a whole, and apart from a 'slight' advantage on the CPU side in a few select (and likely x86 optimized) browser benchmarks, the Clover Trail SoC is really quite lacklustre.

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