With all the talk of Superchargers thought it might make sense to start a thread dealing with the facts as we know them.
Each station costs around 250K to install.
The Super Charger network is free for ONLY for those opting for the most expensive model
A $2000+ fee applies for all others
It takes approx. 40 minutes for the recommended 80% charge.
Feel free to add others, or correct me if I am wrong.
I have not followed the discussion carefully and was not an EE so I don't fully understand SC technology, but my impressions include:
-SC capital costs (ex solar panels and storage batteries) are mainly site nfrastructure driven. The capability to charge multiple vehicles at 120 kw invovles trenching to routie some large diameter cables from the existing high voltage interface to the SC transformers/rectifiers; economies of scale for control PCBs are relatively inconsequential;
-the relatively large power draw when cars are first hooked up means the local utilities will not only bill for consumption but also apply a demand charge.
-nationwide the electrical system is a patchwork quilt of service territories operated by IOU 's both regulated and unregulated, Co-ops, and muniicpally owned entities. To minimize its SC operating expense, Tesla has an administrative burden of becoming skilled in the commericial intracacies of each SC's service provider, which in unregulated territories includes both the T&D company and the merchant generators. (Tesla blames the delay in SC rollout from what was promised in September 2012 on problems with local permits and inaction by local utiliies.)
-existing SCs that I have seen personally and pictures of on-line do not appear to be designed for the addition of fast traction battery swapping and storage--Musk called the locations Tesla Stations not Superchargers at the June 2013 smoke and mirrors soiree.
I read somewhere that Straubel was placed in charge of SC rollout which strikes me as an indication of narrow Tesla's bench really is. Even though it may be only a collateral duty, you'd think there would be more productive uses for the time of such a talented CTO. Anyway include him in searches for cost details.
One item is during busy-time at an SC, if you are sharing a supercharger unit with another car, you can use 90A while the other car gets 30A (total of 120A) - depending on which car has a lower state of charge. This sharing of resources causes longer charge times.
Where did you get the $250k price for the supercharger stations? If that was for the first ones in California (where land is expensive) it does NOT translate to rest stops in the middle of nowhere.
Also, the cost of the electronics drop *dramatically*, once they go from prototype to production purchasing. Prototype PCB fab & assembly is a premium service tailored for speed & flexibility. The PCB house puts their best manufacturing engineers on the project and develops their manufacturing process at that time in collaboration with the design engineers.
Look at the equipment which include large transformer, one large AC to DC supercharger per two charging stations, a variety of trenching, cement pad, fencing, asphalt work, sc hardware, 3-6 employee labor, travel expenses, container shipping, applying for permits, interconnect charges, cleanup, electrical inspections, etc. forget the solar canopies, a site is easily over $100k and who knows what for prime locations. Is it $250k? Perhaps but At least $100-150k.
A variety of sources from Tesla forum to plugincars to evcars and other sites. It varies from 150K without solar panels to around 400K all in. I used 250K.
I'm not sure Tesla owns the land for most of these, or are you saying they do?
I think to be fair you have to look at Supercharging vs. Gas not just on trips but over the 1 yr time frame
Typical driver = 20,000 miles / yr or 385 miles per week.
Assume - 5 trips per year over 250 miles requiring SC stops to and from = 10 stops
Model S Owner 10 SC Stops x 40min = 6.7 hrs
During the week 10 seconds to Plug/Unplug their car in the garage
Model S Owner 6.7 Hrs of Annual Refill time
(Keeping in mind their stops occur after 2-3 hrs of driving on a trip. In my case I typically stop 30 min every 3 hrs anyway)
ICE Owner = 5 trips or 10 Gas stops to and from x 10 min = 1.7 hrs
Gas Stops every week = 52 x 10 min = 8.7 hrs annually
ICE Owner will have 10.4 hrs annual refill time
PLUS 2 - 20 min Oil Changes = 11 hrs annually.
There was a post about this some time ago which caused me to time a stop. I'm driving a car which gets 27 MPG average and has a 16.5 gal gas tank that rarely if ever has less than 2.5 gals in it, but lets say 15 gallons at fill up. This gives me a range of 405 miles. We will assume driving into the station, getting out of the car and opening the gas/plug outlet is the same time. TESLA needs 40 minutes for a 80% charge. I swipe, security code, fill, and get my receipt in about 4 mins 40 secs. Go from there. But it is not about how MANY times I fill--It's about HOW LONG I AM THERE. Add a queue and TESLA could be HOURS to get it and get out--NO WAY. Not in America, and you can take that to the bank.
Interesting math thx, but the problem is that it becomes dicey to extrapolate out the time comparions to that extent. I don't know any one for whom it only takes 10 seconds total per week to plug/unplug. Also lets take the scenario that I (along with 5 million others) live in an apartment in NYC. I can't simply plug in my car with the ease you suggest.
Additionally you need to add in the time to get to and from supercharger stations. I'm tying to stick to things that I can substantiate, not best or worst case scenarios.
Yes, I do, because I can do math. Typical luxury sedan competing with the Model S (Porsche Panamera, Mercedes S Class, Audi A7) gets 19 MPG combined. Current national average for premium gas is $3.50/gallon. So, that $2000 Supercharger fee at $3.50/gallon would buy you 571 gallons (2000/3.50). At 19 MPG, that would be 10857 miles. The average car in the US does 12,000 miles in a year. So, it's not "YEARS" but instead "less than a year."
Even if you took highway mileage only, bumping that MPG up to the class average of 27 MPG, you're still ahead with the Tesla after 15,428 miles, or a little over one year.
Yahoo won't let me post direct links, but the Tesla site is pretty good to find out supercharger info:
Do a search for tesla supercharger map, and you'll find a nice chart with current/coming soon/planned stations.
From what I've read the technology just isn't there yet and is still years away. The current Tesla system is pretty efficient and state of the art.
Let me know where you have seen anything different and I'll check it out.