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Energy Conversion Devices (ENER) Message Board

  • doctor_nickel_hydride doctor_nickel_hydride Aug 18, 2006 12:42 PM Flag

    Question about Li-Ion batteries

    Is Dell knowingly using dangerous batteries or are the safe batteries exploding?

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    • You' think that they'd contact Valence seen as they have the only proven safer Li-ion battery out there. However, Dell users are now using the Valence N-Charge without any side effects such as has been seen in the Sony, et al, batteries they've been using...
      Thor

      • 1 Reply to thorsplace57
      • You' think that they'd contact Valence seen as they have the only proven safer Li-ion battery out there. However, Dell
        =====================================

        Why? The safe Valence Li-Ion doesn't have any advantages over NiMH. The only difference is that the price is 5 times higher. Ray Bowman has posted all the facts on this matter many times.

        There is a Li-Ion battery that has many advantages, but, one big disadvantage - you are required to wear an asbestos jumpsuit in order to operate the vehicle.

    • From the reading I have done, there is a small problem in the mfg. process - the cells are "rolled up" and then the metal ends of the cell are crimped / staked (the metal is formed over the ends of the cell). Apparently in a very small number of cases a "splinter" of metal is carved off of the case, in a percentage of these cases the splinter ends up inside of the battery, in a percentage of these cases (rough handling increases the risk) the splinter of metal can short out the two poles of the battery cell. When the battery is shorted it discharges very rapidly and can cause the problem we are seeing blasted across the networks. I'm not sure what the risk is to a user, but I would guess it is very slight (less than 1% chance of fire....)

    • I agree that LiOn is here to stay
      ============================

      Not in the auto industry. It would be a "ranch bet" for a automaker to take a chance a li-ion.

      Imagine building a million hybrids with li-ion, just two catch on fire, that automaker would be forced to do a recall switching over to NiMH, the cost would bankrupt the company.

    • I agree that LiOn is here to stay. No matter what
      NiMh proponents may do or say (I wonder why they are having little or no affect so far), manufacturers
      have absolutely rejected NiMh for a variety of reasons. LiOn is the technology of choice. Sadly, while ENER had the opportunity early-on to become established in this market, it sat on its hands. Typical of the do-nothing ENER management in my view. Stan et al revel in their glory (savior of the earth?) while shareholders suffer.

    • >>Is Dell knowingly using dangerous batteries or are the safe batteries exploding? <<

      They are not using the safer Li-Ion batteries. And, these safer batteries are not known to explode, even when abused. But, they do not have the large Wh/kg capacity of the non-safe varieties.

    • Why isnt there a push to get Dell to use NiMh batteries? Or is that too embaressing a question to ask ENER?

      • 2 Replies to ar2743
      • >>Why isnt there a push to get Dell to use NiMh batteries? Or is that too embaressing a question to ask ENER? <<

        First, that question is approprieate for Cobasys, Not ECD. Second, why do you assume there is not such a push? You have given no reason to assume they are not doing this.

        In any event, it is probably best right now for some other NiMH licensee to approach Dell with a prototype to evaluate. And, that may well be going on. But, such as safe-Li-Ion maker Valance is likely to also be "angling" for Dell's business.

      • Why isnt there a push to get Dell to use NiMh batteries? Or is that too embaressing a question to ask ENER?
        ------------

        Dell made a terrible mistake by going with Li-Ion

        Just imagine a automaker selling a million hybrids with Li-Ion, -- a coulple of fires force a recall program to replace all Li-Ion with safe NiMH. The cost of the recall would bankrupt most automakers. No automaker will ever bet the ranch on Li-Ion. This is a major reason why PHEV will never happen. That, plus cost and the fact that carbuyers refuse to buy cars with a cord.

 
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