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Energy Conversion Devices (ENER) Message Board

  • murdoch65 murdoch65 Nov 24, 1999 5:30 PM Flag

    Availability of GM EV's

    I had a couple of conversations today which
    confirmed some of the more cynical estimates of when the GM
    EV, NiMH or otherwise, will be available in my area.
    I was surprised. I thought this issue was settled
    and that someone posted here a couple of months ago
    that delivery was imminent.

    Can any current
    owners please post any updates as to how things look at
    their local Saturn Dealerships? Are you driving a next
    Gen EV from GM?

    I suspect the actual delivery
    times are months away, not weeks. How sad this is.

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • I'd love to see if someone can answer this question.

    • December 28th-ish? Last announcement was
      September 28th.

      As for problems in the heat, I heard
      it from a Saturn dealer, and then someone here
      mentioned non-sale in AZ because of problems in heat. So,
      whatever the problems are, they apparently exist enough to
      forestall any sales in the immediate future.

    • In the talk I had yesterday with my EV1
      specialist, she told me that GM was facing a major deadline
      in delivering the Gen 2 Ovonic NiMH cars. Apparently
      there exists a agreement between GM and CARB that they
      have to deliver them in 1999 or face large fines per
      car, which could run into the "millions of
      dollars."

      Does anyone else know about this? This seems like huge
      news to me, to say the least. It means that the
      mandates are working and actually forcing GM to deliver on
      their promises.

      If I have misstated something
      here, which is entirely possible, I would welcome
      someone from GM to reply to this, so we can all
      understand what is happening and work together to promote
      this amazing technology.

    • That's a crock of poop.
      Our Honda with
      Panasonic old-tech NiMH has been in the desert many
      times.

      Careless over-charging, abuse, and failure of
      the
      complicated cooling system makes this a greater challenge for
      the EV1, which does not
      have the battery pack
      dispersed below the vehicle for
      cooling.

      Fortunately, the Triax does deploy the battery below the
      vehicle.

      Meanwhile, GM is probably correct in not marketing the car
      in very hot climes because abuse (and it has to be
      pretty bad!) CAN lead to 10-15% decrease in battery
      life.

      Our current NiMH battery pack has almost 30,000 mile
      on it, and still goes 100 miles or so.

    • Our EV+ has been throught the desert many times!
      Careless over-charging, and perhaps the bad EV1 internal
      configuration, might mean that very hi heat decreases battery
      life by 10% or so--and battery packs last on the Honda
      more than 30k miles.

      The real reason GM does
      not market in AZ--NO MANDATE! The ARB is the ONLY
      reason GM finally came out with the car, after
      sabotaging it by not putting the battery pack under the car,
      like Honda did, for cooling. PS--The triax and all
      other EVs which use NiMH all carry the pack under the
      car. Only the EV1, with its incredibly good
      aerodynamics, requires a special cooling system due to heat
      build up.

      NOT THE BATTERIES! THEY HAVE GREAT
      CYCLE LIFE IN HOT WEATHER TOO!

      There is a
      waiting list for EV1, simply because
      of the long wait.
      There is also a requirement that you live and use the
      car within a 100 mile radius of a Saturn dealer which
      services the EV1. So forgettabout any state but CA, right
      now.

    • they were not made by ENER., sorry. So it won't help ener.

    • Chrysler is rumored to be interested in a PURCHASE of ELSI at $15!!!$$$

    • I can add to the report that NiMH won't be sold
      in the extremely hot climates, e.g. AZ. A local (San
      Diego) dealer told me the NiMH "melts" in that
      heat.

      As to availability, I think that until it's
      available to the average Joe walking in and asking for one,
      like with most other cars, then it's not really out
      there. It's not possible for me to tell, from the posts
      that have been made, precisely if one could actually
      go into a dealership and get one with NiMH in the
      Bay Area right this minute, or if there's a catch to
      this picture, like a wait-list issue or a delivery
      time or a type-of-battery issue or what.

    • Lithium Polymer is a great story, but has not yet
      materialized. There is no theoretical bar to it, like there is
      with Fuel Cells [i.e., H2 energy density], but Li has
      been too expensive so far.

      The real hit would
      be that GM markets the car in areas which want it, I
      agree, you are right.

      The reality is that the
      new manager will only market it where forced,
      traceable imo to their mixture of doin it for money/doin it
      for mandate.

      The fact that they will not
      market the NiMH in AZ was told to me by a GM person. The
      reason is simple: Abuse of NiMH in extremely hot
      temperatures can lead to degradation of battery and shorter
      battery life. Remember that was the problem with the
      original launch in 1997--the idiots had put the batteries
      inside the car, for aerodynamic considerations, which
      were not needed for NiMH because of their greater
      power. Yet putting it inside, without a cooling system
      meant they could not use NiMH!

      Talk about the
      gang which could not shoot straight...but criticism is
      easy, I probably would have made even worse mistakes.
      The point is, we've go the car, and no one can deny
      it!

      IT'S A GREAT CAR, IT DOES EXIST, IT PROVES
      VIABILITY!

      The triax and the new "precept" are pretty cool, too,
      but

      WE HAVE A VIABLE EV! IT'S HERE!

    • To me the "real hit" would be the substantiated
      fact that GM would be leasing (and selling) EV-1's
      with the NiMH battery where ever they can get
      customers.

      What is your source for the fact that the NiMH version
      would not be marketed in warm climes.

      A second
      "real hit" would be the substantiated fact that GM will
      not wait for legal mandates anyplace but will start
      today to lease (or sell)EV-1's with the NiMH battery in
      places with LOTS of interest in EV�s..

      Where did
      you get the facts that you have posted?


      Thanks for your report

      Michael

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