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Energy Conversion Devices (ENER) Message Board

  • murdoch65 murdoch65 Jan 16, 2000 6:05 AM Flag


    As I came home tonight I reflected on your
    research today. You posted, I think, a good example of
    corporate double-speak, if not one of the best I've ever

    On the one hand, obviously many people are asking
    the questions we're asking and a GM spokesperson
    reacted denying the shutdown of


    On the other hand, a rare bit of honesty creeped out
    and GM revealed how little interest they feel is in
    creating further cars. They also revealed that they see
    this car as lasting nearly forever (if I were them,
    I'd see that as a threat to their

    If we keep asking honest pertinent questions then we
    can win. They can have the best corporate publicity
    types in history, freshly hired from Philip Morris, but
    their expertise cannot withstand the unceasing
    questions of honest minds.

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • There are a ton of People at GM who do not want
      the EV (if purely electric) to happen.
      All of the
      people who design, engineer, plan and procure, assemble,
      and test the many
      components for the automatic
      transmissions and gas engines will loose their jobs.
      motors, controllers and batteries do not require the same
      number of components.

      The top exectutatives and
      major shareholders also do not want it to happen. To
      date (and
      contrary to what they say), the
      automobile industry is a closed good ol boy club.
      number of members is shrinking with no new competitors
      in sight (with the possible
      exception of one or
      two from China. The capital to design and build
      transmissions, gas
      engines and car bodies is currently way
      beyond the deepest pockets of even the
      companies. That all changes with an EV. A number of
      companies manufacture electric
      motors, controllers will
      become cheap, and batteries will become cheaper and
      better - be
      they advanced lead acid, nickle-xxxx,
      lithium-xxx, or super iron. Certification with
      gomernment is minimal...... at least currently.

      Making car bodies the way they are currently made is
      capital intensive. But it doesn�t have
      to be that way
      as Audi (in a way) and NASCAR have demonstrated with
      their respective
      aluminum car and race cars. Space
      frames from aluminum extrusions or steel pipe is
      and strong and cheap (requiring relatively little
      capital) to manufacturer. Snap on plastic
      panels could
      form the inside and outside �skin� of the car. At any
      rate, EVs hold some
      potential for making this
      industry competitive, which is desperately

      Roger Smith, if still in power would have taken GM even
      further down then what it
      currently is. However, even
      with all of his warts, Roger, years from now be
      regarded as a
      visionary for his role in starting the EV

      For the life of me, I can�t figure out
      why people are going Ga Ga over fuel cells. Where is
      the hydrogen going to come from? If it comes from
      fossil fuels we don�t gain anything
      with respect to
      reducing CO2. Granted, fuel cells �promise� 50% better
      fuel economy,
      however it is a too little too late.
      Once the Chinese start driving cars in force, 50MPG
      be too little. If fusion energy was a reality or
      close to a reality, fuel cells would be the
      only way
      to go. But our beloved Congressmen have seen to it
      that this does not become a
      reality in the near
      future, even in this era of budget surpluses. Ben,
      George, and Tom
      would spit on our Congressman if they
      were still alive.

      Fortunately Roger, Stan,
      ENER, GM, Toyota and Honda have got the ball rolling,
      and if it
      keeps rolling, ENER will do very well.
      My guess is Toyota and Honda will do very
      with theirs as the mileage will be the driving force.
      Money always talks.

      Cars sitting around with
      batteries waiting to be charged will be the singular new
      event that
      gives PV�s the opportunity people have
      been waiting for. To date, if one bought a
      panel, what do you do with it? �Oh, I have to buy a
      battery and an inverter before I can
      use the PV - I
      think I will wait�.

      If ENER doesn�t make it big
      and I mean big in the next couple of

      Batteries/ENER all the way!

      • 1 Reply to iron_pyrite_jasper
      • I agree with just about everything you've

        The only thing I see to disagree with is:

        the life of me, I can�t figure out why people are
        going Ga Ga over fuel cells. Where is the hydrogen
        going to come from? If it comes from fossil fuels we
        don�t gain anything
        with respect to reducing CO2.

        That depends on what you mean by "fossil fuels". If
        you mean: hydrocarbons, then let me posit that not
        all hydrocarbons are derived from the remnants of
        age-old organisms.

        Some are derived from current
        plant harvests. As such they are a method of storing
        solar energy in the present, with their Carbon derived
        not from Carbon stored deep underground for millions
        of years, but Carbon already in the Atmosphere and I
        guess soil.

        So the use of hydrocarbons
        (sometimes referred to as fossil fuels, I guess) is not
        inherently contributory to further CO2 imbalance unless the
        Carbon used is derived from age-old stored


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