ZBB Energy Corporation Message Board
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AXPW, and exactly what are we ULing?
So,I'm also interested in what's going on with AXPW Axion Power and their Powercube, which reportedly is having two related announcements before the end of November ... first from PJM (see http://www.pjm.com/markets-and-operations/alt-tech-resource-pilots.aspx )
and then reportedly from Axion.
The question of UL certification and Grid connection came up.
I'm trying to figure out exactly what the "within 3 weeks" UL cert for ZBB in the following ZBB company picture entails:
http://www.zbbenergy.com/index.php/download_file/view/128/101/
Secondly, I'm trying to figure out if AXPW's Powercube needs ZBB or is a competitor to ZBB, or they handle vastly different "loads" and thus are not in direct competition.
http://www.axionpower.com/profiles/investor/fullpage.asp?f=1&BzID=1933&to=cp&Nav=0&LangID=1&s=0&ID=10303
If PJM is allowing a Powercube interconnection, wouldn't it have to be UL certified?
Lot of AXPW discussion on Seeking Alpha, including a series of posts this year. The latest is here:
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/228383-mayascribe/237831-axion-power-concentrator-22-beginning-nov-19-2011?source=kizur
(the previous one has a lot of discussion of the just completed Conference Call)-
Seeing, and now researching the term "Behind The Meter" in the Viridity stuff.
The PR noted a "pair" of 100 kW inverters. Not clear on whether one is for "in" and one for "out" or whether it's just to better utilize the "500 kw/250kwh battery system "
One thing to note, the new FERC rules that PJM/Viridity/AXion are taking advantage of apply to a minimum of 100 kW, so the 25 kW UL listing appears to this trying to get informed, but not even close yet observer to NOT put ZBB in the ball game yet.
I will send an email to AXPW about UL certs on the Powercube. -
Axion Power's PowerCube Battery Energy Storage System Integrated Into PJM Utility Grid
http://www.axionpower.com/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?ResLibraryID=49133&GoTopage=1&Category=1562&BzID=1933- 1 Reply to wtblanch5
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I'd sell the news on AXPW. They are running low on cash and stated in the last quarterly that funding needs to be raised soon. That's why it slapped down as it did.
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to be fair, a typically sized 45-50 kW back-up generator is a healthy size (in my market:midwest), you don't usually back-up every single thing in the building/hospital/etc, just critical loads.
If you think about in terms of, oh say, a car battery with 80 cold-cranking amps at 12 volts, thats .96 kW available... but not for an hour of cranking! The time the power is available is probably more important, one number without the other is meaningless. (IMO)
Also, I am curious if the 25kW is peak or continuous rating, if anyone knows? Most electrical installations that include wire, fuses, electric panels, etc, that are rated continuous-duty, are limited to 80% of max. capacity. Anyone read that deep on this product? In other words, is it 25 kW peak, 20 kW continuous duty?
Thanks.
I have more powder, and even took some shares off the table prior to the dropppppp, but this still sucks... long time until the end of the year. Maybe tax-loss thinking will stop after the holiday, but I doubt it. -
Thank you.
The line from the Quarterly Release was:
"Completed testing of 25kW inverter for UL 1741 and IEEE 1547 compliance"
Given your explanation, that sounds very small scale, although I'm probably not understanding exactly what the 25kW refers to. -
And they're combining Solar with it as described here:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/envision-solar-announces-ground-breaking-at-axion-power-international-123449359.html
and from AXPW's 3Q release this week:
Our onsite PowerCube™ ("Cube") is in the final days of testing as we move toward tying into the grid. We are qualifying for dispatchable power applications and will be proving out the Cube's ability to provide power quality, back-up power, power smoothing, and load leveling. This .5MW Cube can easily be scaled up or down from this building block size.
We continue to evaluate the market for smaller Cubes for residential and community storage and larger Cubes for utilities, oil rigs and other larger applications such as solar and wind. We anticipate establishing additional formal marketing agreements for some of these applications in the fourth quarter of 2011.
http://www.axionpower.com/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?ResLibraryID=48978&f=1&BzID=1933&to=rl&Nav=1&LangID=1&s=0&Category=1562- 2 Replies to wtblanch5
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The UL listing is for the PECC or Enersection as it's now called. UL certificate is required for devices that connect to the grid-not the battery. One important role of which is to prevent the system from back feeding into the power grid during an outage and electrocuting repair people. There was a poster, Loama319, a while back that pointed out that UL certification is not needed when the device is located behind the fence. The fence could refer to substations, power generation station, oil platforms, etc. Thus, power cube won't need UL for these applications. Unfortunately, ZBB's high powered Enersection models are just starting the UL process-although is should be much faster given that they are based upon the low power model. So in situations where another battery manufacturer needs a UL approved unit, ZBB is there to provide a battery agnostic inverter/controller solution. Battery agnostic is the key word as different storage situations dictate a variety of batteries depending upon the desired characteristics.
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so what is your point, sell all battery stocks because there is competition, they hype their products, they are a risky investment?
you could post 24/7 here on zbb's competition.
they are adding solar? wow, batteries and solar, you'd have to go back decades to find zero companies offering that.
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