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NVIDIA Corporation Message Board

  • hurlbertdj hurlbertdj Feb 15, 1999 3:30 AM Flag

    ashman

    Here are a few more quotes from extremely well
    known game makers about the Voodoo 3 and it's lack of
    32 bit
    Patrick Moynihan:
    I hate 16-bit
    rendering. It makes rendered scenes look like crap. Smooth
    gradations of color and light get broken up into visible
    patches and bands of color. This can be partially
    remedied by using a dithering algorithm to smooth the
    gradations when converting from the internal 32-bit render
    to the 16-bit output. But then you end up with a
    crappy dithered mess, especially noticeable at lower
    resolutions. The effect is less pronounced at higher
    resolutions, but still there. I love the speed of 3DFX's
    cards, but nVidia has proven (with the TNT chipset) that
    you can bring kick-ass 24-bit rendering to the
    desktop with incredible performance. Get with the
    program, 3DFX.
    Kick Engine's Martin:
    The lack of
    24/32 bit rendering is a major disappointment 3DFX now
    have the worst image quality of any of the major
    chipsets and are doing nothing to address this. There's
    more to graphics card than just it's fillrate. Also
    the maximum texture size is becoming a serious
    weakness and still no stencil buffer, I see. Also 32 bit
    internal rendering means nothing, if the source texture
    starts of in 16-bit colour, the output quality can not
    be better than the input quality. In fact, with
    multi-texturing the output quality will be far worse, more like
    12 bit quality. With a faster TNT on the way and
    cards like the Rage 128 and Permedia 3 coming, the
    Voodoo3 card looks very poor indeed. If all you want to
    do is play Quake2 at 60fps, then it's a good choice
    but for anything else, I'd give it a miss.
    John
    Carmack, maker of Doom and Quake series:
    Voodoo3 will
    be in the ballgame with TNT, rage-128, and permedia
    3, but it will be the most limited of the bunch. It
    will likely trade off somewhat higher delivered
    performance against the loss of flexibility. 3dfx downplays
    24 bit color because they don't have it. NVidia
    downplayed per-pixel mipmapping when they didn't have it
    with NV3. PowerVR downplayed bilinear filtering when
    they didn't have it with PCX1. Etc. If there isn't any
    blending or textures with alpha involved, the internal 24
    bit rendering (just like current voodoo cards)
    dithered into a 16 bit framebuffer looks reasonably close
    to a full 24 bit path. Blend a couple layers of thin
    clouds over an environment box and you will think you
    are back in 8 bit color...

    I dont know about
    you....but I am going to bet on the 32bit cards.

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • >Who is going to write a game in
      glide

      Umm, last I checked, there were several hundreds games
      optimized for Glide. And anyone that wants speed and new
      features is going to write in Glide. There's your answer.
      I'm not going to bother looking up the new games that
      are Glide enhanced or Glide-only- if you can't do
      that much you shouldn't be an investor OR a
      gamer.

      > Not only is the color much better but the Voodoo
      2 only gets
      >800X600 where the TNT gets
      1280x700.

      Oh, and you actually PLAY in 1280x700? I
      have a Banshee and I'm sure I could get up over
      1024x768. But I don't like 3 fps max.

      >and if you
      see the difference with a TNT on
      half-life

      I've seen the "difference" on the G200, which is
      supposed to be an even better picture. I had them side by
      side, and just for kicks, didn't even move. Just sat
      and looked at the pretty picture. Yes, it was pretty,
      but when I played the game, I didn't notice a
      difference. And apparently, considering Banshee's dominiation
      at retail, most other gamers feel the same
      way.

      >go look at Voodoo 2 message boards....there are just
      as many
      >problems

      You can't compare
      the two- first off, you're looking at quantity, not
      percentage. The V2's have sold WAY more then the TNT, so if
      you have 100 people with V2 probs and 100 people with
      TNT probs (for simplicity sake) the percentage of
      people having probs is WAY higher on the
      TNT.

      You're also looking at a card that's almost a year old-
      people have owned it longer so the chance of failure in
      SOMETHING- game or otherwise- is higher.

      >Do what
      you want but Nvidia has been going Up, up, and
      up

      And only an hour later, it's already down, down,
      down! You're still below the IPO price, you
      realize..

      >If you dont like Nvidia so much....shut up and go
      buy some
      >TDFX....

      It's not a matter of
      what I like or don't like- it's a matter of what makes
      money. If you don't want to hear it, don't argue back
      with baseless opinions and present them as know-all
      truths.

      And TDFX is an excellent long buy...but probably best
      to wait a month or so to accumulate. I personally
      feel that Nvidia is a great short right now...though I
      don't have the extra cash to do it.

    • Their recent chip is competitive. However, if you
      currently discount the cash reserves from the considered
      totals, the market seems to be valuing nvda at 4 X the
      value of the the merged co.'s tdfx/stbi (a market cap
      of $580M versus $140M). So, tell us all why is that
      again?

      Particularly with tens of millions of
      shares soon to be available (i.e., unlocked) for sale in
      this nvda small-cap nasdaq mini-market? Sure, the
      buyers seem to outnumber the sellers today, but with
      these millions of shares a'comin how can that
      continue?

      Pray sir, do tell? If I were MS and Prudential I
      too would issue a buy rating also (particularly if I
      could over-subscribe at about $11 per share. So, let's
      see: 1/2 million over-subscirbed shares X $11 = about
      5 1/2 million and counting! Yah, do the morning
      exercises and pump it up.

      It is not nvda versus
      tdfx versus ati versus siii. It is the insiders and
      monied interests versus the small investors. IMHO.

    • what are you talking about?????????
      <Have
      you even PLAYED any games with both cards? It's very
      simple- most game developers make the games work on
      Voodoo and ATI cards FIRST and everything else second.
      It's simple math- more Voodoo and ATI cards (with
      hardware support) then anything else. Even Brian Hook has
      said this himself>
      Who is going to write a game
      in glide when only 3DFX cards can support it when
      many other people use other cards??? No one is going
      to use glide anymore. What games does the TNT
      support best.....gee Half-life Quake 2, and anything
      running of the quake 2 engine......what are the best
      selling 3D games.....gee Half-life and quake 2 and
      anything running on the quake 2 engine....I dont know who
      you are talking to but I have both cards myself on a
      PII 400, and if you see the difference with a TNT on
      half-life you would wet yourself. Not only is the color
      much better but the Voodoo 2 only gets 800X600 where
      the TNT gets 1280x700.

      <Hmm..and before
      you question his ability, you might take a look at
      the thousands of problems on various TNT message
      boards>

      go look at Voodoo 2 message boards....there are just
      as many problems...No matter what kind of hardware
      you make there are going to be problems.....
      Do
      what you want but Nvidia has been going Up, up, and
      up....a high of 22 at 9:45....
      If you dont like Nvidia
      so much....shut up and go buy some TDFX....

    • http://www.voodooextreme.com/articles/devonv3.html

      I think you skipped a few quotes, most likely by
      accident and not as a result of any particular
      bias:
      -
      Valve Software's Harry Teasley

      It sounds really
      cool to me. It looks like quite the performer, and I
      trust 3Dfx to accurately state the performance
      of
      their chipset. I can't wait to see a
      card.
      -
      Patrick Moynihan: (a part you must have missed as
      well)

      So what will 250/366 million pixels per second give
      us? More layers of transparency. More texture
      passes
      (think liquid caustic effects, detail maps, etc.).
      Higher resolutions at higher framerates.

      Bad-ass
      fill-rates are a good thing.
      -
      Gary McTaggart


      24/32 bit rendering is going to become more and more
      important. I don't think that lack of 32 bit color is
      going
      to hurt Voodoo 3 too much in its timeframe (except
      for maybe the OEM checklist when they are deciding
      what
      to put into their machines) since there really isn't
      anything else out there that runs at a "good enough"
      fillrate
      when running at higher color depths. When I'm running
      on TNT, I generally run in 16 bit color to avoid
      the
      performance hit.
      -

      Now I don't know who that silly
      Valve company is or what that stupid game is that
      probably no one played (Half-Life) but these people sound
      really stupid. I'm glad you showed us the "important"
      information and skipped past the pro-3dfx stuff. Man, what
      would we do without you to filter our news?

      • 1 Reply to denial2
      • <So what will 250/366 million pixels per
        second give us? More layers of transparency. More
        texture passes
        (think liquid caustic effects, detail
        maps, etc.). Higher resolutions at higher
        framerates.>

        We all know that the Voodoo 3 get's better frame
        rates because it runs at 16 bit....but the TNT2 gets
        much better image quality

        <Valve Software's
        Harry Teasley

        It sounds really cool to me. It
        looks like quite the performer, and I trust 3Dfx to
        accurately state the performance
        of their chipset. I
        can't wait to see a card.

        Now I don't know who
        that silly Valve company is or what that stupid game
        is that probably no one played (Half-Life) but these
        people sound really stupid.>

        Yes a comment
        from a guy at Valve is great but my comment from John
        Carmack (the creator of 3D games, wolfestien, doom,
        doom2, quake, quake 2, and the highly anticipated quake
        3) might be considered a little more meaningful to
        some people. The guy from valve also did not really
        make any comments on it, I agree with him that the
        Voodoo 3 sounds like a sweet card, but the TNT2 sounds
        even sweeter....to me it sounds like he did not pay
        much attention either.

        Also your quote from
        Gary McTaggart:
        <....I don't think that lack of
        32 bit color is going
        to hurt Voodoo 3 too much
        in its timeframe (except for maybe the OEM checklist
        when they are deciding what
        to put into their
        machines)...>
        Even he understands that Voodoo 3 is going to be hurt
        in the OEM market by people who dont know that much
        about computers....for people who dont know, 32 bit
        sounds more impressive than 16 bit and so does 32mb of
        ram vs 16mb of ram.
        I am sorry.....next time I
        will include quotes like these as well.

    • You're right that 32bit will dominate but not
      yet, because most people don't have computers good
      enough to use it, let alone video cards.

      I know
      that sounds like another bullshit 3dfx quote but 16bit
      looks more like 22bit.. yeah yeah, i know it sounds
      lame but its true. 16bit WOULD look like crap if it
      didn't have dithering, then you could see all the
      banding. But if u play halflife or some other game with
      16bit and dithering, you can't see any kind of banding
      at all. 16bit looks fine.

      ashman

 
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