Fri, Nov 28, 2014, 6:33 PM EST - U.S. Markets closed early today

Recent

% | $
Quotes you view appear here for quick access.

The Coca-Cola Company Message Board

  • woodstein2002 woodstein2002 Mar 7, 2004 12:39 AM Flag

    From the Chairman's Letter PT3

    That's right: 290 millon Americans and all other businesses would not have to pay a dime in income, social security, excise or estate taxes to the federal government. (Here's the math: Federal tax receipts, including Social Security receipts, in fiscal 2003 totaled $1.782 trillion and 540 "Berkshires," each paying 3.3 billion would deliver the same $1.782 trillion).


    Warren is just too fucking nice. He can name names, the cheaters, the corporate welfare receivers, the Republican trickle down deceivers. Warren has been pounding this one for several years now, and someday somebody(are YOU LISTENING JOHN KERRY) is gonna hear it. When it becomes a populist mantra-it will be open season on CEO whores and cheats and their enablers(Investment Bankers, Accounting shops).

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • Gosh, this is just too confusing!!

      After all, we all know the rich don't pay taxes.

      But maybe Berkshire Hathaway/W. Buffet aren't viewed as rich(?)

      DiB

    • hia, re:

      >>>You keep saying that folks will not be paying 8-12xEBITDA. Well I understand that past history is not indicative of future performance but if every bottler that has changed hands in the past 20 years by KO or PEP has gone for 8-12xEBITDA and the public company bottlers EV/EBITDA are in the same range then I would guess that private investors would get comfortable paying that because once again private investors are MOST I repeat MOST concerned with cash flow which bottlers have plenty of. <<<

      Please help me with your logic extensions. Just which bottlers were bought/sold without the direct involvement of KO on both sides of the equation, or without key subsidies like 'special' limited duration marketing payments? It will help me to understand your position on how an independent will value a franchise. Otherwise, all you have presented is how a controlling entity has directly influenced 2 decades of sales of entities it directly or indirectly controls.

    • hiawathasmalls2000, re:

      >>>Regardging the relevancy of the EV/EBIDTA ratio. Do you know what it is used for and why it SHOULD be relevant. if not then why don't you explain to the board what ratio or metric you would use to value the businesses. I thought you would understand that the purpose of a ratio among similar and dissimilar business is so that you can make a like comparison. For example looking at the current ratio of MSFT to BUD is plausible from a strictly performance view and does add value to a potential investor.<<<

      You have to be joking. You really don't understand KO's business, financial and business structure, etc. to use these companies for comparison. Where is the similarity to MSFT? No similar market dominance, no equity financial structure, no growth industry, etc. etc. As for BUD, where is the incestuous dealings with controlled off balance sheet SPE's? Please, dig a little, try to understand KO's business, before picking companies to compare to. I would also say that a comparison to PEP/PBG is even a reach given the more arms length nature of their relationship. And this is a key area to understand before using simplistic number comparisons like EV/EBITDA ratios.

    • RE:"It was said that Heyer would be named CEO by end of month."
      Response 1: Highly speculative based on recent reports of Heyer's mgmt style. Issue is uninformed speculation positioned as fact. Heyer might be named to CEO post, I say MIGHT.

      RE:"why don't you go to www.investopedia.com and look up what they think about the EV/EBIDTA ratio before you lash out as if it is the most ridiculus possible ratio to measure the value of companies that operate in a similar business line."
      Response2: If I was an investor, -I'm not anymore-I would want to understand the nature and predictability of profits, pricing environment, cost structure, and cost of capital to name a few. There are many ratios that speak in part to these but one of the biggest issues surrounds the "real" price of concentrate that CCE will pay in the future. That is net of all rebates. Further what demands will KO make of CCE in order for CCE to "earn" the rebates. What is this cost?

      In view of past regulatory history I see no imminent move to force a KO divestiture of interest in CCE. CCE is most likely to remain just what it now is, and that's a subsidiary of KO positioned as an independent company. Anything else is highly speculative at this time.

      And by the way, investors don't have to solve the "problem of flat growth in NA". KO does. Smart investors will wait for the plans before sinking money into either company, in my opinion. No smart investor will jump in looking for cash flow as you state when every day cash flow depends heavily on the aforementioned and very speculative factors(see response2).

    • The issue is "depth" of analysis. EBITA for CCE is not "real". Do you get that? Dissimilar business is one thing but CCE EBITDA doesn't happen unless KO agrees. CCE isn't a business like MSFT or BUD.

      As for Heyer "Under" could have made the point that despite the recent revelations Heyer would be appointed for "the following reasons".

      Get it?

    • Canu---

      Do you just answer what you want and not direct question? I belive under asked you to give some ideas on what you do consolidate or divest? We are all still waiting. Because the answer you gave says that divesting is out then you IMPLY that you think divestitures may occur but the people that overvalued CCE will not have the wherewithal to buy. I am confused... scractch that you are confused.

      You continue to ask people for insight yet you provide no relevant, dicernable, or coherent insight of your own. Stop asking under to give you a MBA class. if you have questions go back your professors at some esteemed ivy school that I am sure you went to. Practical common sense and sound business judgement are in these if you have not noticed. And since KO nor CCE seem to be practing either, the DOJ and SEC WILL eventually force them to consolidate or divest regardless of your feelings that "people who don't understand how to value the business." BTW who are these people you are refering to? once again I think you are confused. This is not meant to be a personal attack I am just wondering who you are talking to when you are writing? Do the people actually exist or are you seeing folks that are not there.
      You keep saying that folks will not be paying 8-12xEBITDA. Well I understand that past history is not indicative of future performance but if every bottler that has changed hands in the past 20 years by KO or PEP has gone for 8-12xEBITDA and the public company bottlers EV/EBITDA are in the same range then I would guess that private investors would get comfortable paying that because once again private investors are MOST I repeat MOST concerned with cash flow which bottlers have plenty of. Thanks again for providing no insight. It is a pleasure to hear from you. I am sure you will give us all some great feedback either a) telling me that I am full of it or b) that you will say nothing and regroup so that you can speak to those imaginery people in your room.

      Thanks for playing please come again.

    • What mistake did under make on Heyer? It was said that Heyer would be named CEO by end of month. Last I checked it is not the end of the month.

      Regardging the relevancy of the EV/EBIDTA ratio. Do you know what it is used for and why it SHOULD be relevant. if not then why don't you explain to the board what ratio or metric you would use to value the businesses. I thought you would understand that the purpose of a ratio among similar and dissimilar business is so that you can make a like comparison. For example looking at the current ratio of MSFT to BUD is plausible from a strictly performance view and does add value to a potential investor. If you compare a ratio such as EV/EBITDA to SIMILAR companies what you get is a good estimate of how they releate to each other and that ratio provides a GREAT measure for the value of company. why don't you go to www.investopedia.com and look up what they think about the EV/EBIDTA ratio before you lash out as if it is the most ridiculus possible ratio to measure the value of companies that operate in a similar business line. Once again if you have something better we are all ears.

      If you view the possibility of a breakup of CCE to be speculative then tell me how you can slove the problem of flat growth in NA that is dragging down KO earnings. Because remember it is not just CCE that KO has a huge stake in. They also have a 27% stake in COKE which has 8% of the NA market. So KO roughly controls 90% of the NA market which is the worse performing market worldwide. Yet a private financial investor would not be under the pressures to produce margin growth (they are intersested in cash flow grow) and they are closer to the customers and can build better relationships with retailers because they will not be looked at within the communities as the big red machine from Atlanta. A private, locally owned bottler provides greater access to the people that buy the products. KO wins because they can focus on areas of the world that provide stronger margins and CCE wins because it can focus on reducing debt and gaining market share internationally. everybody wins including the shareholders YEAH!!!!.

    • Just as with your mistake on Heyer, you appear to satisfy yourself with very superficial information from questionable sources. Please explain why it is relevant to use the ratio you quote with companies that are structured differently and receive different levels of pricing and support funding from primary supplier.

      Further your view on breakup is speculative at best and niave at worst.

    • YES, YES and YES!!! Forget about any breakup or sell-off. Only possibilities are status quo with ongoing negotiation and tinkering with funding and pricing, ORRR consolidation. Latter is not likely.

    • canu-

      a quick look at enterpirse value/ebitda of public bottlers:

      cce - 8.43x
      coke - 8.18x
      pbg - 7.9x
      pas - 12.67x

      now if you take cce and apply a 15% premium for a bouyout (8.43 * 1.15) you get a 9.7 purchase price. mergerstat lists purchase prices for such companies in the 7 to 10 range. so ill stick to my 8 to 10x ebitda.

    • View More Messages
 
KO
44.83+0.540(+1.22%)Nov 28 1:01 PMEST

Trending Tickers

i
Trending Tickers features significant U.S. stocks showing the most dramatic increase in user interest in Yahoo Finance in the previous hour over historic norms. The list is limited to those equities which trade at least 100,000 shares on an average day and have a market cap of more than $300 million.