While it is small comfort to myself as Kerry lost and that progressive tax, domestic policies and foreign policies were set back, Brooks' discussion of some further election analysis should cause the Bush True Believers to pause:
Warning 1: Canudle,reading this article like reading any article may cause you to suffer further irreversible brain damage. Warning 2: Bush True Believers and other Republicans again you are cautioned that this article does contain facts which are quite unpleasant involving an informed political base:
November 8, 2004
Voting Without the Facts
By BOB HERBERT
"The so-called values issue, at least as it's being popularly tossed around, is overrated.
Last week's election was extremely close and a modest shift in any number of factors might have changed the outcome. If the weather had been better in Ohio. ...If the wait to get into the voting booth hadn't been so ungodly long in certain Democratic precincts. ... Or maybe if those younger voters had actually voted. ...
I think a case could be made that ignorance played at least as big a role in the election's outcome as values. A recent survey by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland found that nearly 70 percent of President Bush's supporters believe the U.S. has come up with "clear evidence" that Saddam Hussein was working closely with Al Qaeda. A third of the president's supporters believe weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq. And more than a third believe that a substantial majority of world opinion supported the U.S.-led invasion.
This is scary. How do you make a rational political pitch to people who have put that part of their brain on hold? No wonder Bush won."
The survey, and an accompanying report, showed that there's a fair amount of cluelessness in the ranks of the values crowd. The report said, "It is clear that supporters of the president are more likely to have misperceptions than those who oppose him."
Angel, now I get it... don't like an opinion, call them a name, Neo, and you don't have to respect their opinion. Fine sense of upstanding social policy you have there. Did you say you were an artist? Rather intolerant of others, it seems. Another "Ugly American" trait. Or a way for you to join the 'Disinformation is Good' crowd.
You are of course free to label yourself a progressive. Be my guest.
I think if you reexamine the criticism I made of your body counts post, you may see where and why it was directed. If you further review my posts regarding the social study estimating Iraqi deaths at close to 100,000, you may realize how foolish you sound saying I do not think the deaths are significant.
Hopefully this criticism of your post is specific enough for you.
PS.. I think I once was voted King of the May for some High School Dance, but that was a long time ago.
It is very difficult to get someone who wants to dwell in abstractions to return to the concrete. Trust me, about this I know plenty.
It is so amusing that AZ considers me a radical. He must not know any radicals. I vote but really I'm a slacker. I did contribute some time and money to the Democrat's cause. And I engaged in some fighting rhetoric on this board. But radical is something I can't lay claim to. No self-respecting radical group would have me. I assume you consider civil disobedience radical. So far, I've never been in jail. But I certainly admire many peace advocates who have.
"I see Michael's and your opinions as being self defeating extremism."
As usual, you are unable to be specific. It seems to be a habit.
Funny, I see you as gelid, not progressive. And the idea that you considered the body count posts unimportant still lingers in my mind. That you would be so cold as to not understand the importance of those lives being lost for an unjust war, I find chilling.
I consider myself progressive and so you can get used to it. You don't have exclusive rights to the term. And you can't bar the door as no one has elected you King of the May.
REGARDING: More recently we went through this again and I promised to point it out when it next occurred and predictably, when I did you, again spun out of control. I refuse to continual have this argument, but you can be assured that I will continue to point out your boorish behavoirs.
RESPONSE: Please point out my "boorish behavoirs".
You are vacuous.
REGARDING: That and you share with him what I think is generally recognized as extreme social and political liberalism.
RESPONSE: Alpha..., enough of your psycho-babble!
Either point out the specifics and offer rational arguments reflecting your position or stand erect and admit you are a phony.
You are reading more and more like a Harvey-wannabe.
Michael, try and not spout nonsense. Do you forget our clear differences regarding the legitamacy of militarilly removing brutal dictators such as Saddam Hussein. It was less than a year ago, but the posts remain if you want to do the research.
More recently we went through this again and I promised to point it out when it next occurred and predictably, when I did you, again spun out of control. I refuse to continual have this argument, but you can be assured that I will continue to point out your boorish behavoirs.
Angel, If you want me to subject your posts to harsh criticism, I guess I could. I think, however that your heart and emotions are in the right place if not always intellectually rigorous.
You are still somewhat new this board so you arguably have not seen enough exchanges with Michael to see examples of his spinning out of control. That and you share with him what I think is generally recognized as extreme social and political liberalism.
As a progressive or one mostly aligned with New Democratic Leadership ideas, I see Michael's and your opinions as being self defeating extremism. Unlikely to ever capture the necessarry mainstream for national election. Since, contrary to your evolving viewpoint, I feel passionately about progressive solutions, I feel obligated to try and moderate extreme left views. It is only my opinion, but you ignore, oppose or denigrate with the likely prospect that I will call you out.
Hopefully I have my views a bit clearer to you.
REGARDING: Michael.. As you know.. I seldom hesitate to state my differences with you. Unfortunately as with any criticisms, you tend to spin out of control.
RESPONSE; The fact that you are not accepting my offer, to point out any discrepancies you think you perceive, reflects a lack of intellectual honesty.