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  • azalphainvestor azalphainvestor Nov 30, 2008 4:51 PM Flag

    Alpha's God, Stein, reads Canu

    While I respect Stein, I can only imagine you are calling him a god to deflect from your worship of W, Cheney and Rummy. Now there is a 3 some of disastrous proportions which Canoodle was only too glad to defend for the past 6 yrs.

    Keep up the whining and rock throwing. Maybe even STFU and see what a bright man brings to the WH. As Ive pointed out too often, you wont understand the good, but you will benefit none the less.


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    • Alph,

      You seldom fail to take the "bait". Let me suggest that the real discussion, if one cares to look for resolution rather than temporary advantage, centers on "how and why did we get there/here?" The emphasis is on WE!

      What are the trends/movements that occur, affecting all of us, with the evolution of thought on a given subject and what did we learn? Canu once responded to Duckie with the question/assertion that Duckie doesn't really understand what money is.

      Do we really know what money/fiat is now and have we gotten so far down the road that we have lost site of the answer? That is the essence, IMO, over whether or not fiat or metal backed currency is correct for the modern society.

      Now why do I engage these points? Simply to understand whether trends in thought as exemplified by Rubin and industry cohorts, are but errors in practice or dishonest manipulation of a system open to such. We are all subject to error and I can't imagine that anyone thinks that Greenspan, for one, is corrupt. He believed everything that he said and testified to in the 80-00's period. Fact is, some people's errors are more important than others.

      Now the real issue is, has Rubin learned? Is he smart enough and is he prepared to work for the necessary evolution in thought and practice to resolve the current financial mess that we find ourselves in. I believe Obama has surrounded himself with very capable and experienced financial advisors that, if they are at least mostly pure in thought and sufficiently dedicated, can move the country forward.


      • 3 Replies to dointhedog2
      • Dog, I welcome your insight. It takes an honest person to establish an empirical based review of where we are at and heading. I suggest you consider the below article regarding Rubin. No... he hasn't learned is what you will find.

        As one of the most highly paid at Citicorp, he claims immunity from what has befallen Citi. As one of the guiding intellectual and operational talents at Citi, he claims no responsibility for its failure. He just wants you to bail it out because of 'unforeseen' market failures.

        What nonsense.

        But read it for yourself. Then tell me you are not worried that Rubin is the principal architect of Obama's financial restructuring plans.

        NOVEMBER 29, 2008 Rubin, Under Fire, Defends His Role at Citi
        'Nobody Was Prepared' for Crisis of '08

        Under fire for his role in the near-collapse of Citigroup Inc., Robert Rubin said its problems were due to the buckling financial system, not its own mistakes, and that his role was peripheral to the bank's main operations even though he was one of its highest-paid officials.

        "Nobody was prepared for this," Mr. Rubin said in an interview. He cited former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan as another example of someone whose reputation has been unfairly damaged by the crisis.

        Mr. Rubin, senior counselor and a director at Citigroup, acknowledged that he was involved in a board decision to ramp up risk-taking in 2004 and 2005, even though he was warning publicly that investors were taking too much risk. He said if executives had executed the plan properly, the bank's losses would have been less.

        Its troubles have put the former Treasury secretary in the awkward position of having to justify $115 million in pay since 1999, excluding stock options, while explaining Citigroup's $20 billion in losses over the past year and a government bailout of at least $45 billion.

        Mr. Rubin's salary made him one of Wall Street's highest-paid officials -- and a controversial figure among Citigroup shareholders and some executives, who questioned whether his limited duties justified the big paydays.

        "Even though he has no 'operating' responsibilities, he still has a fiduciary responsibility as a board member," said William Smith, a New York money manager and frequent critic of Citigroup's current management and board. "He has overseen the entire meltdown, yet been compensated as an operating employee while bragging about having no operating responsibility." Mr. Rubin can't "have it both ways," Mr. Smith added.

        Mr. Rubin said his pay was justified and that there were higher-paying opportunities available to him. "I bet there's not a single year where I couldn't have gone somewhere else and made more," he said. He turned down his bonus last year, telling the board the money could be better spent elsewhere.

        Asked if he had any regrets, Mr. Rubin said: "I guess that I don't think of it quite that way," adding that "if you look back from now, there's an enormous amount that needs to be learned."

        Mr. Rubin's effort to salvage his reputation comes just after Chief Executive Vikram Pandit appeared on PBS's Charlie Rose show. Mr. Pandit, too, blamed the overall financial crisis, not Citigroup, for the problems that led the government to decide to inject money into the bank for a second time this fall.


      • "Obama has surrounded himself with very capable and experienced financial advisors that, if they are at least mostly pure in thought and sufficiently dedicated, can move the country forward."

        "Pure in thought" Dog? "Pure in thought"??

        Forgive my sarcasm but didn't most of the advisors that Obama picked have a hand in the SUB-PRIME/SLIME DEBACLE??

        Unless these advisors found Economic Religion and became BORN AGAIN (economically speaking) then their "Pure in thought" may still be locked into their old "Impure In Thought" mentality.

        As Dr. Phil has always said; "you can't change something you don't acknowledge". I don't recall any of Obama's advisors acknowledge their complecity in the GREATEST ECONOMIC DEBACLE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. Maybe if they came forward and admited to their part in THE GREATEEST ECONOMIC DEBACLE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD then I think there's a chance they COULD CHANGE and put the NATIONs INTERESTS FIRST.

        However, IMHO there AIN'T NOTHING CHANGING. Cause too much money was made by the WALL STREET CROOKS with their willing accomplices in Congress, Rating Agencies, and Oversight/Regulatory Agencies. Also, if Wall Street gets BAILED OUT when they fail and KEEP the MONEY when they win why would they want CHANGE?

        And guess who GAVE MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Campaign Dollars to Obama and his party?

        Oh, and since there hasn't been a REAL HEARING by Congress concerning THE GREATEST ECONOMIC DEBACLE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD I figure TPTB want this DEBACLE to continue.

        Nothing like good old SOCIALISM to put the FREE MARKET OUT OF BUSINESS.

        Comrade eggsky and hamsky

      • "...has Rubin learned?"

        As a Citigroup long term shareholder, and a committed sceptic based on experience, I would very much like to be entertained by any argument he has "learned".

        Because that would make good theatre.


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