Last month, the UN presented to the world that Libya was a model of human rights protection - heck Libya sat on the UN Human Rights Commission overseeing other countries and setting the norms for the world.
Now, Gadafi is to be removed. Gadafi hasn't changed in 1 month - he's the same loose cannon suppressing his people. It's just the stench at the UN needed to be released upon us through Obama.
We don't even know who the actors are that we support in this Civil War. This is not "Egypt", or "Bahrain" or "Tunisia". Those were peaceful uprising events. Libya has been a Civil War almost from the start - with 2 armed camps.
You can't even tell me about the Libyan armed camp that we support. Obama and Hillary hasn't even talked to us about them. Do you want to arm them? - maybe. Maybe not - the weapons may find their way to Iraq and Afghanistan.
The UN has no moral authority to tell the US and others that attacking Gadafi is the thing to do.
Worse, Obama just bypassed the American people. Many were mad at Bush for going to war - but at least he engaged with the constitutional system and we had a public dialogue. Whether Bush's story was right, wrong or biased, Bush engaged the American people in both dialogue and process.
Obama ran with a UN vote and put us in a Libyan Civil War without ever coming before the American people.
A real "constitutional scholar" who promised a better way, and more respect for us, would not have done this. It is time to strip the imagery and look at substance - what little there is. We just unleashed our military because the "UN" and "Obama" wanted this. Not because the people of the US permit.
This is really about the sorry state of Government fiscal budgets, the economy and coming elections.
When contemplating this, just look at the leader of France - Sarkozy - who needs the adrenaline rush for the coming election and to fend off the daughter of a neo-Nazi while rebalancing
the Franco-German relationship.
The Huffington Post wrote about Alpha's oracle, Michael Moore, and his thoughts regarding Obama bypassing the constitution and any semblence of a dialogue with the American people before committing us to a Civil War:
Michael Moore rips Obama over Libya
By Jordan Fabian - 03/19/11 06:41 PM ET
Anti-war filmmaker Michael Moore tore into President Obama for taking military action in Libya on Saturday.
Moore, a frequent critic of President Bush for launching the Iraq War, unleashed a string on tweets comparing the U.S. military's mission in Libya to Iraq and Afghanistan, using a mantra coined by Charlie Sheen:
It's only cause we're defending the Libyan people from a tyrant! That's why we bombed the Saudis last wk! Hahaha. Pentagon=comedy
And we always follow the French's lead! Next thing you know, we'll have free health care & free college! Yay war!
We've had a "no-fly zone" over Afghanistan for over 9 yrs. How's that going? #WINNING !
Khadaffy must've planned 9/11! #excuses
Khadaffy must've had WMD! #excusesthatwork
Khadaffy must've threatened to kill somebody's daddy! #daddywantedjeb
Moore also suggested that Obama should return the Nobel Peace Prize he won in 2009:
May I suggest a 50-mile evacuation zone around Obama's Nobel Peace Prize?
This new "Obama Doctrine" - isn't it a retread Bush Doctrine?
Obama told the world, "“I refused to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action,”.
It is an embracement of George II's thinking re. WMD.
In both cases, a "possible" scenario was treated as coming reality. Counterfactual arguments can only be relegated to the history classes and political mudslinging - but as with Bush's WMD claim, Obama's is likewise. Just watch the scenes on TV, this is a Civil War of minor ferocity.
OBAMA: “For generations, the United States of America has played a unique role as an anchor of global security and as an advocate for human freedom. Mindful of the risks and costs of military action, we are naturally reluctant to use force to solve the world’s many challenges. But when our interests and values are at stake, we have a responsibility to act.”
lol! Since when is America the moral compass of the world and entitled to foist it on others?
How about we look at Haiti, circa '94. The Clinton regime sent in the military and then annointed Jean-Baptiste Aristede. We foisted upon the people of Haiti a tyrant who was bloodily removed a decade later.
With "Libya", we now have an American President who didn't even bother coming before the American people, let alone Congress, before sending Americans off to participate in a Civil War. There were no peaceful demonstrators in Libya, there hasn't even been a dialogue on who the rebels we support are. While there was a devil there - that devil was sitting on the UN Human Rights Council!!!!
What we saw from our President was pure ego - subsequently given a veneer of holy righteousness. Let's hope we don't have an "Aristede" decade in Libya - that would be terribly damaging to our standing and the value of a blessing from the UN.
Where were you when the Bush administration lied to the American people about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and started on a land mission that have cost us thousands of American lives and eventualoy a trillion dollars. At least this is a very limited mission with no ground troups and litte economic loss. And remember Ghadafy is a known terrorist himself who was a part of bringing down a commercial plane with civilians. He is a bad guy.
QWAK,Iraq was about preserving the US DOOLAR as the global reserve curency! Sadam started selling OIL for Euros and not US DOLLARS! He was OUR monster till he did that!
All of what is going on NOW is about $$$ and a distraction from the REALITY that the whole global FIAT system based on DEBT is caving in! :(
It is NOT about PEOPLE and saving lives!!!! :(
IT is about trying to maintain the STASUS QUO and the USA runing the SHOW!
QWAK,canucanoe,You are INCORAGABLE and and beyond my ability to EDUCATE!
You will LEARN the HARD WAY like 99.9% of the people who USE curency -- think it is actualy MONEY and DON'T know the DIFERENCE!
Physicle GOLD is MONEY -- every thing ELSE is just a SUBSTITUTE they create out of THIN AIR and it returnes to it's TRUE VALUE when DEBTS do NOT get PAYED!
Backing CURENCY with DEBT is realy just SLAVERY painted a diferent COLOR! :(
Duck, your prior argument was that Euro to buy oil, instead of USD, was a key reason to go to war in the Middle East. It had NOTHING to do with Gold.
I tried to respond to your thought. Now you create a disturbing segway to an unrelated topic.
Last night on CNN, finally, FINALLY, we get a report on just "who" and "what" these rebels are.
Doesn't it seem reckless that the President, Sec'y of State and Sec'y of Defense has never spoken to the American public regarding the "end game"?
And is it foolish to launch 200 Tomahawks, at $1.5M ea., when what is really needed is feet on the sand? After all, it is those feet that provide the end game to enforce a Western standard Govt. And without that form of Govt, why are we involved?
Here's the article. Just 1500 rebels exist. I'd say the joke on America is not the quantity - but that the lust for battle, the wag the dog moment, has shown us that Obama is much like Bush - except his propaganda of the smartest guy in the room is no different than the Wizard of Oz's.
Libyan rebels number less than 1,000?
Share posted at 11:36 am on March 31, 2011 by Ed Morrissey
Via Jim Geraghty, who wonders how the West hitched its star to such a poorly formed and hopeless band of opponents. Look on the bright side: at least this makes the CIA’s job of vetting the resistance a lot easier than we thought. CNN’s Jon Lee Anderson gives Eliot Spitzer the bad news, as Moammar Gaddafi’s forces roll back the rebellion even with NATO air strikes:
During “In the Arena,” Jon Lee Anderson, staff writer for The New Yorker reporting from Benghazi, Libya, tells Eliot Spitzer that the number of opposition fighters on the front lines are fewer than anyone would think and that they are poorly armed and badly trained. Anderson says, “Effective number of fighting men, well under 1,000. Actual soldiers, who are now in the fight, ...
possibly in the very low hundreds on the opposition side.”
Speaking of those air strikes, just how is Gaddafi’s military avoiding them in their sweeping offensive? They downsized their armored vehicles to something a little more sporty and a lot less conspicuous:
Moammar Gadhafi’s forces recaptured strategic territory and moved within striking distance of another major eastern city in Libya on Thursday, nearly reversing the gains rebels made since international airstrikes began.
The rebels, meanwhile, pleaded for more help, while a U.S. official said pro-Gadhafi forces were making themselves harder to target by using civilian “battle wagons” with makeshift armaments instead of tanks.
They shifted their transports to pickup trucks and other passenger vehicles, betting that NATO won’t fire on civilian vehicles on the road. That may or may not be a good bet long-term, but in the short run it appears to have been effective.
The siege of Misrata turned critical today as well:
Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi shelled the rebel-held city of Misrata on Thursday and dozens of civilians have been killed in the past few days when their homes were hit, a rebel spokesman said.
Misrata, the last big rebel strong-hold in western Libya, has been encircled by pro-Gaddafi forces for weeks and repeated Western air strikes aimed at protecting civilians there have not so far succeeded in halting the attacks.
“Massacres are taking place in Misrata,” the rebel spokesman, called Sami, told Reuters by telephone.
“Artillery bombardment resumed this morning and is still going on. The (pro-Gaddafi) brigades could not enter the town but they are surrounding it,” he said.
The West’s attempt to push Gaddafi from power rests on a force that can’t possibly accomplish it on their own. NATO and the US will have to reconsider the parameters of their mission if they hope to avoid the embarrassment of a rout of the rebels, with an ascendant Gaddafi and his family atop the dictatorship once again.
QWAK,canucanoe,NO you STILL don't understand about MONEY and CURENCY or that because the US DOLLAR has been the worlds RESERVE CURENCY the FED (privetly owned BANKS) have been able to SCAM and RIP OFF the whole world and yet remaine in the back ground and NOT be blamed and held accountable for its ACTIONS!
The FED is NOT the US GOVERNMENT but the US GOVERNMENT must and DOES defend thease UNKNOWN BANKERS who HIDE in the SHADOWS pulling strings and causing WARS to happen! :(
The IRS is just a COLECTION AGENCY for the FED and all our TAX dollars (which they create out of thin air) go to the FED to pay intrist on the DEBT!
They ROB every one EVERY WARE systimaticly, backed up by US MILITARY threat to "PAY and OBEY" or suffer the CONCIQUENCES! :(
There system of GREED and DEBT SLAVERY has percipitated ALL of the mysery and upheaval both here in the USA and around the WORLD but is distorted in your MIND and 99% of other people -- because of the ARTIFICIAL disconect from the ACTUAL CAUSE of the problem! :( People generaly do NOT understand MONEY and what it represents (the WORK and EFFORTS of another person!)
The FED owns and runs the mass media and the GOVERNMENTS (FEDERAL and STATE) at all levels -- but hides in the SHADOWS with out ANY ACCOUNTABILITY to the PEOPLE of the USA or the WORLD -- for the actions they take which PERCIPITATES all the problems the PEOPLE must deal with -- that are ECONOMICLY based!:(
They (the FED) are the MASTERS and virtualy ALL the people EVERY WARE who use FIAT CURENCY are DEBT SLAVES and like your self -- do NOT realise that GREATER TRUTH/REALITY! :( GOLD is MONEY -- FIAT is NOT!
By condestinely minipulating the price of GOLD and SILVER that GREATER TRUTH/REALITY has been BLURED and hidden so that other wise inteligent people like your self -- see GOLD and SILVER as "ONLY COMODITIES" and NOT what they have always been -- REAL actual MONEY!
Obama is just there latiest PUPET -- a MONKEY on a STRING -- born in AFRICA and NOT actualy -- LEGALY -- the PRESIDENT -- the ULTIMIT proof and in your face demonstration that THEY (the FED) own and run/manage virtualy every thing, YET the ignorent people are CLUELESS that they are DEBT SLAVES being MINIPULATED and forced in to situations that the FED percipitated!
When all boiled down it REALY is the DIFERENCE between REAL MONEY and what it REPRESENTS and the intentional IGNORENCE projected by the BANKERS -- that the FIAT CURENCY they ISSUE -- is NOT -- real MONEY -- but rater DEBT which IS -- the modern form of SLAVERY on a GLOBAL SCALE! :(
QWAK,canucanoe,Do you take COMFORT in your choice to be OBLIVIOUS of the greater REALITY of your SLAVERY to DEBT? Do you take comfort in being OBTUSE and ANAL RETENTIVE?
I injoy being FREE of all DEBT and using my time and life being CREATIVE and helping others discover how to be FREE of DEBT and be INDEPENDENT and CREATIVE in there lives!
It keeps me out of TROUBLE and OFF the STREETS! ;) LOL ROTFL :)