SPDR S&P 500 Message Board

I have lost track of how many morning gap-ups we have had during this rally. If this continues, we will be at new yearly highs before you know it.

Looks like we might be adding one more "morning gap-up" to an already long list on this rally.

killin' me, just killin' me lol.

I am a Boston fan, Yankee business is my business.

"27 world series, most over 50 years ago and half of those on the back of stealing Babe Ruth. Their team salary is probably equal to the bottom 13 teams in total and where are they now? Like everything else in NYC, over-hyped, over-promised, and under-delivered. I always dreaded getting a new NYC client because I knew was in for a rude, uncouth, classless commoner."

Too funny, you sound like a "rude, uncouth, classless commoner." I could not have come up with better words myself. Next time you might want to mind your own business unless you have something of subtance to say.

tom you cloak your stupidity in seeming intelligence but alas you are an idiot. You have no idea when "shorts" so called enter and exit trades, you speak as though "shorts" are one homogeneous group that trades in unison. I have knew for you perma-bill longtardling, people with the skill to short successfully aren't herd following retards like "longs", most of whom are mo mo's who enter a trade together and get slaughtered together like cattle running off a cliff.

"Since September 25, which is when I believe the bottom was put in the market, the market is up approximatley 80 S&P 500 points. Of those 80 points. only 12.5 points (15.6%) have come during regular trading hours and 67.5 points (84.4%) has come during after-hours trading. Is it now clear where the real action is in this market. This aint your daddy's market any more."

We might be adding tonight's move to those numbers.

"But my "argument" with Tom is more fundamental than that, and I think we mostly cleared it up. He is saying he is computing net short/net long for ES by itself, apparently from the tape, just by netting up volume and down volume. I say what he's calculating is something else, that in the aggregate there is no net long or net short for a given futures contract."

Duck, enclosed is the CTC report which shows a net short position for the S&P 500 e-mini contracts of 49,104. My own numbers indicate that the number is much larger than that, however, we can save that discussion for another day/thread.

http://www.cftc.gov/dea/futures/deacmelf.htm

Thanks Chicken, you are introducing yet another element to the problem, one I brushed on earlier (all the other ways a market participant can be short other than through futures and how they can offset each other).

Options contracts are quite different from futures contracts. No doubt you understand options better than I do, but I do understand the fundamental difference between options and futures: options are not symmetrical, futures are. With options there is a big difference between the writer and buyer of the option. There is no such asymmetry with futures. The buyer and seller are equal but opposite.

So anyway, if I am short one ES per each 500 SPY I'm long, I am neutral (but I still get to collect the dividend on SPY), and I defy anyone to tell from the tape what the hell I'm up to. Same applies when the bigz are doing this. (Of course, if I do this at a single brokerage, the brokerage knows and can use that information as they see fit, but the information is not discernible from the tape.)

But my "argument" with Tom is more fundamental than that, and I think we mostly cleared it up. He is saying he is computing net short/net long for ES by itself, apparently from the tape, just by netting up volume and down volume. I say what he's calculating is something else, that in the aggregate there is no net long or net short for a given futures contract.

Gotta run. I hope the sky isn't actually falling, Chicken Little Man.

QUACK! QUACK!

I think an understanding of option/contract may be the answer you're looking for. The MM's goal is to be Delta neutral. To do so, they can buy or sell options and stock to achieve that goal.

Consider this example, if at the end of the day a MM has 10 puts and 4 calls on a position - they get delta neutral by buying 1400 shares of the underlying.

My explanation is pretty simplistic, but it helps to understand that a MM doesn't see any difference between a call and a put. To them, "a put is a call" and "a call is a put" .