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Papa John's International Inc. Message Board

  • robinchoop robinchoop Jan 16, 1999 1:28 AM Flag

    Built on sand

    Papa John's does not have the best ingredients!
    All of the PJ's stores mix their sauce with water
    just like Pizza Hut! They use canned mushrooms, their
    cheese is made by the same manufacturer as the other big
    chains! Leprino cheese, check it out! They have convinced
    people with their FALSE advertising about better
    ingredients, better pizza! Perception is fact and at this
    point that is the PERCEPTION! I like to think what goes
    around comes around and John Schnatter has his coming
    around! His tactics have been questionable to say the
    least! He changed the company's advertising concerning
    dough just like a cheap democrat! "We would never use
    dough made on the same day" when all their previous
    advertising would say "using fresh dough made daily" now they
    didn't say "where" they made the dough, just that is was
    made daily. Give me a break Johnny boy!! This company
    is on a roll, make your money now, for the long haul
    this company is not a good one!!

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • We will see how well this company does in the long haul. I know this business and know it well! As far as a johnny come lately, they are just that.

    • I have not been frequenting this board lately, so
      I am sorry for the late response. But in response
      to #756...

      1. PZZA stores do NOT add any
      water to their pizza sauce.

      2. PZZA uses only
      fresh mushrooms.

      3. Leprino supplies the major
      pizza companies. There is no single mozzarella cheese
      company that can supply all of PH's or PZZA's needs,
      except Leprino.

      Anyway, just because Leprino
      makes it, that does NOT mean the products are the same.
      Ford makes cars but they are not all the same either
      are they? You may drive an Escort and I could drive a
      Mustang. Could be VERY different huh?

      Over and Out!

      • 1 Reply to takeitfromme
      • I love to read all the posts here about Papa
        John's. I don't think many of you know anything about the
        pizza business at all, other than the numbers side of
        Papa's success.
        Papa John's cheese is a product
        called QLC or Quality Locked Cheese. This cheese is made
        by Leprino with PJ's specs on melt, bite texture,
        etc. They continue to add water to their sauce with a
        spice pack. They don't use paste but use a thicker
        sauce and add water and spices, so what people seem to
        like it! They have a decent product, what they don't
        have is a dedicated franchise community.

        PJ's operators in my areas change hands every two to
        three years because they know nothing about the pizza
        business. They figure on making big money quickly and are
        disappointed time and time again.

        I have been in the
        business for 18 years, I've watched the Papa John's stores
        in this area (some of the first Papa John's stores
        ever) do well to begin with but have declined
        substantially in our markets in the last 6 yrs!

        Schnatter has a great plan for HIS success but his
        franchisees will continue to suffer as their projected Gross
        Profits are not realized time and time again. Reports of
        same store sales are misleading due to price increases
        and smaller discounts. How long will it be before the
        company will have to start buying stores back or closing

    • on your response to pb


    • Thank you for taking the time out to do that. I
      guess what I was looking at really wasn't the closing
      price, rather watching it throughout the day and making
      foolish assessments. Lo and behold - it's made a bounce
      over the last few!!!!
      Thanks again for the

      Long on PZZA since 11/97!

    • Starting from 10/15/98 to the present, here are
      the dates of the trading days which closed "up",
      "down", or "unchanged" wherein that day's trading volume
      EXCEEDED 253,454 shares.

      UP Days (=

      10/16, 19, 27, 28/98
      11/2, 3, 6, 9, 12, 18,
      12/1, 21, 22/98

      DOWN Days (=

      11/4, 5, 11/98
      1/8, 11/99

      UNCHANGED Day (=

      10/29/98 (Note: while, intra-day, a higher "high" as well
      as a higher "low" was achieved compared with the
      previous trading day, its close was

      Although most recently (1/8 & 1/11) we've seen heavier
      "down" days than "up" ones, I don't think its meaningful
      as any harbinger. PZZA's trend is still "up" and to
      do that, it takes a lot more "up" volume days than
      "down" volume days.

      Hope that does it for you.

    • 2. A standard for assessing comparative "volume"
      is a stock's ADV (Average Daily Volume). You will
      find it on a stock's Detail Quote page here on Yahoo.
      The period or term over which the "average" is taken
      can vary with the provider of the data. Usually, it's
      averaged over the immediately preceding 30 trading days,
      but here on Yahoo, the provider is, I believe, Market
      Guide (MG) and if you read the description of MG's
      methodology (how MG calculates it), IMO, whoever's
      responsible for authoring that description should be
      summarily executed for committing an atrocity against the
      language. Go read it and see if you don't agree.

      I understood it, it appeared to boil down to an
      average taken over the preceding 3 months (~91 calendar
      days?) which, barring any market holidays (such as
      occurred on Monday) would = ~65 trading days as a

      PZZA's ADV is currently shown as 253,454 shares traded
      per day.

      What has been its recent history over
      say, the past 6 months? Well, from mid-June to
      mid-July, PZZA's ADV ranged in the ~141k to ~154k region
      but when the Dow, S&P 500, and NASDAQ began to top
      out, PZZA's ADV began to inflate to the ~250k level by
      the end of August (when the markets were spiking down
      to their "correction" lows).

      PZZA's ADV
      ranged in the ~240k to 256k region for about the next 6
      weeks until the markets tested their end-of-August lows
      in early October and began to head toward (then) new
      record heights in mid to late November. That's when
      PZZA's ADV began climbing, too. From the ~250sk area to
      almost the 300k heights, spending most of November in
      the low 290sk region before trending lower through
      the ~267k to ~253k region for December and thus far
      into January of '99.

      So you see, PZZA's ADV has
      actually been declining in volume over the past 8 weeks,
      NOT getting "heavier."

      1. As to your belief
      that PZZA's been "up" on low volume while "down" on
      heavier volume, that's not what the record

      Using the current ADV of 253,454 shares traded per day
      as a delineator defining "heavier" volume, I went
      back 3 months in PZZA's archival daily trading record
      here on Yahoo (go to any of PZZA's charts and at the
      lower right corner below the chart's various term
      plots, you'll see Table. Click on daily and it'll take
      you to whatever time period you're seeking that's in
      the database).

      I could've used the ADV
      appropriate for the week screened as the arbiter of "heavier"
      volume, but it was simpler and faster�to use the current
      ADV and the results would've been little different,
      if at all.

      Looks like it'll take Part III to

    • activity do not appear to be borne out by the
      (historical) evidence.

      First of all, let me say that I
      am not a trader so, unless there is something
      extraordinary occurring with a stock (i.e., volume in multiples
      of ADV, ~10% intra-day price movement, up or down
      from the prior close), I am usually not keeping a
      close eye on intra-day activity.

      As I understand
      your contention in your posting #767, you are asking:

      1. Why PZZA appears to "bounce" up on relatively low
      volume and "slides" down on relatively higher

      2. Why PZZA appears to be experiencing inexplicable
      heavy volume (<<There is no apparent reason for
      any of the heavy volume-..>>).

      3 Why
      PZZA's price movement appears to be so "volatile"
      (<<-or even the goofy swings in price that we've been
      seeing lately->>).

      I will attempt to
      respond to these three points in reverse order. My
      explanation may contain information which you might already
      know but my intent here is to be instructive for those
      lurkers to this thread who might not be aware or
      otherwise acquainted with some of this

      Just as "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.", so,
      too, a perception of a stock's trading activity can be
      a very subjective thing. Standards or benchmarks
      have therefore been established as a means of
      assessing these factors in a more objective comparative

      3. In the case of "volatility" (short-term price
      swings), there is a factor called, Beta. You will find a
      stock's Beta listed on its Profile page here on Yahoo.
      You can access that page at the upper right corner of
      this message you are reading as well as from the
      stock's Quote or Detail Quote pages, et al. The Beta
      figure is a measure of a given stock's volatility
      compared to the volatility of a broader measure of the
      market, in this case, the S&P Composite Index (S&P 500).
      The S&P 500's volatility is taken to be 1.00. A Beta
      < 1.00 signifies a stock whose volatility is
      "calmer" than the market's and, conversely, a Beta >
      1.00 indicates a stock whose volatility is "jumpier"
      than the market's. PZZA's Beta is currently 1.14 which
      would not indicate extraordinary volatility. If you
      want to see "volatility", go check out the Betas on
      some of these internet stocks.

      To be concluded
      on Part II.

    • in response to robinshit - uh, I mean choop. I have been long on the papa since '93 and look for continuing success!


    • or just plain crazy? You must be a Tricon plant!

    • I guess that was the point I was trying to make,
      but perhaps I was being too negative about it. This
      price seems to like to bounce up and down. I have to
      blame analysts. I blame them for the stock making large
      moves up as well as down. When PZZA has gone up
      significantly I think it's just analysts pumping it up.
      Similarly when it is down (dump). I don't care too much
      really. I'm not going anywhere for a while...

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