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Clean Harbors Inc. Message Board

  • oldyeller33 oldyeller33 Jan 10, 2000 12:05 AM Flag

    Who Holds the Debt?

    I've heard that either SK or LDW holds most of the debt from CLHB, with the intent of making it hard for CLHB to maneuver. Do you know if this is true?

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    • dont forget EQ,Envirosafe, and wmi 5 haz. landfills

    • The action is in municipal wastewater utility
      systems that are hard piped to customers.

      Haz and
      non-haz industrial wastewater was the first part of the
      waste business to collapse. Almost every TSD has the
      capabilty in their Part B. There just isn't much business.
      The big generators are in TX or the steel industry.
      Some use deep wells, others have installed onsite
      treatment. With smaller package units available, almost all
      significant generators have shifted to onsite treatment.
      Cleanups generate big irregular streams, but they usually
      have multiple contaminants that are cheaper to deal
      with by incineration or DuPont's Deepwater wastewater
      plant. Small volume streams often go to incineration
      because of convenience and chemistry isn't a big

      Overall, CHLB's wastewater treatment assets may be of a
      little value if they're up and running. If this is just
      a permit capabilty, then it's worthless because the
      return wouldn't justify building.

    • The industry really can't go anywhere. The
      expense to general industry in getting rid of waste is
      pure overhead and they cut it wherever and whenever
      they can. The only way to make a decent profit will be
      to corner the market. On the flip side, the industry
      will survive until the EPA goes out of business. I'm
      just hoping the stock gets enough life to make it
      above book value so I can sell.

    • the type of consolidation i was talking about
      would be extreme:
      some money player buying up
      sub-title c, incinerators and tsd's cheap enough to write
      off goodwill, put up adequate closure reserves, and
      write down transportation assets to reasonable useful
      lives. close excess capacity and wind up with 80% market
      share. (FTC permitting). sounds wild, huh? where else
      can this industry go?

    • Wasteguy - Do you think anyone could be
      interested in the Harbors wastewater treatment assets? At
      the core of their part B's lie large batch treatment
      systems for non-hazardous waste. Could be attractive to
      someone wanting a large position in the US market.

    • 1. They were always up for sale. The CEOs and
      owners were always talking to each other. Now,there,s
      almost no one left. SK is the result of Rollins, Aptus,
      Laidlaw, USPCI, SK, SD Meyers, and some Allworth. Philip
      gobbled up a bunch and the old Republic gobbled some
      more. Besides SK, CHLB and Philips are the only
      signicant public players. Heritage is the biggest private.
      There's no one left in the old boys club so the sale is
      open everyone now.

      2. I think the European are
      going to go after the infrastructure business in water
      and wastewater. Vivendi bought US Filter for this.
      The municipal systems are selling to deep pocket
      firms because they need capital investment. I think
      Vivendi and Suez will pursue the consolidaters like
      United Water and PWSC. Who wants to deal with hazwaste.
      Vivendi which watch ORYX for a while before buying more

      Can there be much more consolidation in
      haz? There aren't any players left.

    • just because they were registered (public issue)doesn't mean they were publicly traded. does antone know where they were placed (public or private) and where they currently reside?

    • Nope. The 12,5% Senior Notes were a public issue,
      which is unusual for High Yield issues today, most of
      which come as 144a's.

      The Kimball Notes were
      public Nebraska muni-bonds.

      Who is buying CLHB
      common stock?

    • i'm not sure but i think that we may be getting
      the different clhb debt instruments mixed up. ldw
      bought the senior notes (12.5%) to the best of my
      knowledge 2~3 years ago. i don't know if they have since
      been disposed of by ldw. their are other debt issues
      outstanding such as the kimball bonds , etc. i believe the
      senior notes, which are due in 2001, were private

    • Thanks.

      Re: Bonds. The bonds were sold by
      First Boston in a registered offering in 1994, when
      CLHB's stock was much higher and Clinton and Gore were
      expected to spend a lot of federal money cleaning up the
      environment. The bond issue is small and CLHB is not a
      household name, with no research coverage from either the
      equity or debt side, and no investment banking
      relationships. The bonds probably never trade, or only very
      rarely, and the market must be extremely illiquid, with a
      wide bid/ask spread. Investment fund holders need to
      get market quotes from dealers to mark their
      portfolios. Fidelity & Guaranty Life Insurance Co. in
      Baltimore is shown holding $3.5 million of the bonds.
      Someone could call them up and ask them where they have
      their bonds marked.

      Re: why a bondholder might
      sell: bondholders don't buy bonds because the last
      coupon was paid, they buy because they expect the next
      coupon to get paid, and so on, and they expect to get
      paid their principal at maturity. The corporate bond
      market doesn't have the same pyramid scheme/greater fool
      market dynamic that you see in the equity

      Re: Bond covenants. Their are no restrictions on who
      can own CLHB bonds. Anyone can own them. They get
      them by buying them. After the company sold the bonds
      to First Boston in 1994, it no longer had any
      control over who owns them. Period. Still, I doubt LES/SK
      or any haz waste operator owns CLHB

      Re: Industry consolidation: SK has been an
      aggressive, albeit less than successful industry
      consolidator. Can anyone else fill this role? Who is a next
      likely acquisition candidate, beside our favorite CLHB?
      Can someone handicap WSTNA, DRTK, ITX, URS? Thanks.

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