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Ballard Power Systems Inc. Message Board

  • redshoe77 redshoe77 Sep 5, 2009 9:08 PM Flag

    Meltdown of 2008

    What happens when Repub freemarketers' are given free rein. People forgot too soon.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/5-weeks-on-the-brink-Reliving-apf-1316610109.html?x=0&.v=7

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    • Very.

      Regards

      Bill

    • How serious are you about your prediction for gold to go to $5000?

    • Good one code

    • >I love the sound of Libertarian/creationist philosphy gushing wildly in the morning.

      And the retorts from our resident Communist/foot-fetishist red!

      Sorry, but if you can call me things I'm not, I can return the favor (at least your nick implies the above ;-)

    • Steve, please explain to me how government forced subprime lending is capitalism? Or do you have some different definition from wikipedia?

      BTW, since you talk about irrational markets, being rational, how much gold to you own? The rational play is since we are priming the pump in both monetary and fiscal policy at levels never before seen in actual dollars and in percentages, monetizing the markets as never before, and have no one in the government with a clue or a spine, my prediction is gold at $5 to $10K in 5 years.

      Regards

      Bill

    • I love the sound of Libertarian/creationist philosphy gushing wildly in the morning.

    • >So why don't you consider captialism a failure
      >when it required emergency room treatment a
      >a federal reserve full of IV solution?

      The same reason a successful person might end up in ER--maybe he was shot or poisoned by hostile forces who don't want him to succeed.

      ;-)

    • steve,

      Yes, I do consider that socialism has been a failure around the world just about every time it has been implemented. I mean a long term failure. There are still countries trying it, but they are not progressive, advancing countries overall.

      Capitalism has indeed had its share of failures, but most often short term failures. People invariably like to have more stuff and more stuff than their neighbors so they will work harder to improve their personal lot in life. Capitalist based countries have, at least, a much better probability of being wealthier and helthier as a result of more rapid standard of living. Indeed the capitalist economies have had more success than socialist economies at doing so.

      The thing that irks some people about capitalism is that you really do have to make your own way through life. Get a good education, work hard, invest smart, roll with the punches, suck up mistakes and spend on a budget. For those who find approach to life 'inconvenient' and wish to have someone else do the bulk of the work for them, they find themselves fussing at those who have money and want some sharing goin' on.

      Do you find it inappropriate that those of us who go through the effort of making money are reluctant to give it away to people who have squandered away their lot?

      I was very disappointed that the banks were allowed to receive so much money with so little follow through on how to handle it appropriately. I do think many of those banks should have been punished and hundreds of investment advisors and politicians should have been immediately relieved of their jobs and sent to jail for such stupid decision-making. But as I said, the new administration chose the lesser of two evils and that was clearly a capitalistic approach at keeping the country going.

      Yes, we will be a less advanced country under the new socialism and as a whole we will suffer as a result. Hopefully, a future administration will attempt to undo the restraints that are being placed on us now.

      One way to do that is to make any wage-earner responsible for paying some measure of federal, state and local taxes regardless of income level. Maybe then there will be some insight as to why socialism is a drag on a thriving economy.

      Regards,

      JJ

    • Redshoe77 first we have not had ANY free banking in this country since the civil war. We have created a system that is prone to boom and bust (actually boom and bust may not so bad, the booms allow some who might never be employed to get jobs) through bad regulation. The FDIC insures banks but does not adjust payments if the banks take too much risk.

      IMO we need a good way to put money in the hands of people in times were people want to reduce debt. Free banking had such a mechanism. Perhaps we should mimic the old Scottish free require banks to hold 30% capital in good times as they typically did under free banking. Since the FED and FDIC have removed the natural reasons for banks to hold capital such a regulation maybe needed.

      Also in retrospect it seems pretty stupid to allow some banks (investment banks) to leverage great than other banks, which was a big incentive to securitize loans. Was that a right wing move?

      But putting that aside and assuming that deregulation (that is allowing too much freedom was the cause of the problem. That still does not prove that deregulation is bad. For one thing people often need time to adjust to deregulation. Looked at this way the finical crisis is school master to investors (all the burden of watching banks is now investors because the FDIC insure depositors). (BTW even FDR saw that the FDIC lead to big problems the FDIC was a republican vote buying scheme) After the adjustment we may be better off for the deregulation.

      To illustrate this point: I believe that at least some of the short term effects of legalization of marijuana, cocaine and heroin would be bad but I am still for legalizing of all recreational drugs, people would adjust.

      To be consistent if you are for a string government hand in bank regulation you should be for banning the consumption of alcohol and for the banning of motor cycles and scooter both of which do more damage than do banks.

      Finally what right wing free markets brought about 10% plus unemployment in 1980? (And that on top of 10% plus inflation). This time so far so good.

      http://www.minneapolisfed.org/research/WP/WP642.pdf
      http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2008/11/selgin_on_free.html

    • you say socialism was a failure.

      And you also say the Obama administration pumping money into the banks "...was a barely veiled attempt to keep capitalism alive."

      So why don't you consider captialism a failure when it required emergency room treatment a a federal reserve full of IV solution?

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