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Ballard Power Systems Inc. Message Board

  • william_tarasen william_tarasen Aug 4, 2013 1:25 PM Flag

    Shortest Artic summer on record

    Seems the concerns of Redster and others have been severely overstated as the Artic has had the shortest summer on record and the ice mass has recovered nicely, thank you. So Redster, what are you going to point to now to support your chicken little beliefs?



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    • Okay, I searched on "Shortest Artic [sic] Summer" and found out what Bill was talking about.

      It's just that temps dipped below freezing for a few days at some location in the Arctic (note to Bill: that's how it should be spelled) and an anti-AGW website pointed it out, and sure enough, it was put through the right wing echo chamber. Mark Morano's website pushed it, and it was a big discussion item on many conservative websites. Nothing about ice mass having "recovered nicely" as Bill claims.

      No scientists, no scientific publications, no science.

      Temps went back above freezing, ice melt continues, bs from conservatives continues to flow.

    • take a hike all of you and get off this board

    • Have you heard of the icegrowth-warming link?
      There are 2 theories that explain link between 2 things: "why avg global temperature is growing (proved with endless amount of data) and polar ices are growing too (proved with satellite scanning)".
      It's all linked: +temperature, -salinity, +ice substrates....... +overall ice.
      It's interesting.

      • 1 Reply to longfcell
      • longfcel said: "Have you heard of the icegrowth-warming link?"

        ROFL! Let's see...if ice is shrinking, it's due to global warming...if ice is growing, it's due to global warming. Yes, of course you can find someone with a theory to explain either, but if you accept both, you have something non-falsifiable. Anything outcome will confirm your theory.

        One of the most basic and expected outcomes of global warming is polar amplification. In a nutshell, if the Arctic sea ice doesn't shrink, then the bulk of theory of GHG-related AGW goes out the window. The the only way to stay on the CAGW wagon is to admit that scientists don't really understand it at all, and your supposed overwhelming consensus is non-existant (or that it's a consensus of being wrong).

    • Why don't you and your band of NDP aholes,
      Go F yourseleves

    • As usual, Bill must have gotten his info from CNS, WND or Free Republic. Or maybe he has a direct feed from Heartland Foundation itself.

      NSIDC website, updated 8/3, shows ice extent still declining this season, running close to two standard deviations below the 1981-2000 average. But I'm sure Bill has an exclusive interpretation for that. Very exclusive. Such an exclusive interpretation that he's the only one who believes it.

      • 3 Replies to groundhogsteve
      • grounghogsteve said: "As usual, Bill must have gotten his info from CNS, WND or Free Republic."

        Proof once again that Steve has no idea of what he's talking about. The climate community is buzzing about this, and you only need to go to the usual ice-tracking sources to see why. Start with the Danish Meteorological Institute, and cryosphere today. There's some summer left, we'll see how it turns out, but at this point we've dipped back below freezing on mean temp and we'd have to see a strong reversal soon for it not to be a relatively short melt season. I know that would make Steve so sad. Maybe he can find a picture of a dead polar bear somewhere to make him happier that we are destroying the planet. ;-)

      • Steve,
        Actually, the Arctic ice loss rate appears to have hit its worst and is headed for a period of lessening rate for now. It may well be rolling over into a year-over-year gaining period. Be it less sub-sheet warm water, less destructive winds, cooler temperatures or more snowfall is not clear but it seems to be some of each of those. The Antarctic ice is now three standard deviations above normal for the first time in recorded history for reasons that are not well known either.

        What is clear, is that the extreme predictions by some climate alarmists about the Arctic ice being gone, at least in the summer months (in 2008, 2009, 2012, 2015, etc), are all wrong so far. And there is little evidence that this will come to pass in the next many decades, either.

        There is virtually no evidence that we are headed for any kind of global temperature crisis. You name it...sea ice, land ice, ocean 'acidification', bleached corals, droughts, floods, hurricanes, sea levels, species change...all show little evidence of being forced outside of any normal range. As scientists of both sides are argueing furiously about their data it is also clear that the weight of the evidence is not firmly on either side so global warming/change/disruption must be ethereal at best, or insignificant at worst.

        The science is definitely not settled except in the minds of non-scientific. It will take another couple decades before we can be confident one way or the other. Don't let emotion sway you.



      • If you do a bit of searching for "Shortest Artic summer on record"
        They are referring to the length of the melt season and not ice extents.

        And from the NSIDC website that Steve referenced, July 17th 2013:

        "The slow retreat of sea ice in the Beaufort Sea has resulted in the most extensive ice cover seen there in the last seven summers (Figure 4). Ice extent also remains rather extensive in the Chukchi Sea,"

        Seems they tried to down play it?:

        "...though other recent years have seen more ice at this same time of year, particularly in 2012, when Shell was forced to delay drilling operations and reduce the number of wells planned. "

        So it's the most ice in 7 years, but they've seen more, yet it's melting
        Sounds a bit contradictory, no?

        That wasn't from CNS, WND, or Free Republic, I think Steve might owe Billy an apology?


    • Well Climate Change causes cooling too.
      Sun spot cycle 25, it could be bad...


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