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Kforce Inc. Message Board

  • pat_custer pat_custer Oct 17, 2002 9:26 AM Flag

    Recruiters not a priority for several

    more years. Companies are strictly hiring through word of mouth (network). As layoffs continue to swell, there's no need to pay a recruiter, who are mostly dip shits, 25-30% fees. These greedy bastard recruiters are bitching and moaning about why a company is slashing their fee from 30% to 15%. Then they have the cajones to tell the candidate to lower their salary expectations and to prepare for a 50% pay cut, despite their exceptional talents.

    I won't ever use a dip shit recruiter again. I picked out 2 'executive' recruiters who actually have a network of the top brass in a company that I'd want to work for. The problem is that all of the other ducks are trying to be like the swan, by calling themselves 'executive' recruiters. The easiest way to separate the shit from the gold is to ask the dipshit on the phone who he/she is working with and who they know. Usually they'll just ramble on like an idiot and end with 'we can't give out that information'.

    Recruiters are over-rated, don't understand what the candidate is, looks at buzz words on a resume and is only interested in collecting their fee. My executive position came from networking. I changed my contact information so that I don't have these twenty somethings calling me up and wasting my time. If they do call me, I tell them to get intellectually challenged and try to put a little more education behind their name, so that they can find a real job. I laughed when I saw how some of these managers tried to put together kForce. Remember that goof who put together that marketing campaign with all of the cartoon characters - no wonder he was shit canned!

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    • I'm sorry to hear that you have fallen ill. I guess your queasiness (and breakfast on your keyboard) would account for your poor spelling and grammar.

      Or, perhaps, I give you too much credit.

      Have a good weekend - feel better.


    • I think I am goung to puke,,no,no,I did!

    • If these relationships are understood, then the rest is easy:

      - the evolution of the Sales Team by market/client, including the restructuring of rates based on volume

      - the development of a compensation plan that is based on individual performance as well as team/market performance

      - the development of Third Party Vendor Relationships (TPRs) to facilitate the expansion of service offerings to include Off-site and/or off-shore development solutions (one of several reasons I have always believed Third Party Vendor Recruiters should be established in major markets - that's where the TPVs are)

      - the combination of Sales reorganization by market and TPVs to evolve further into a company that offers Vendor on Premise services

      - the streamlining of processes through standardization and web-based implementation, knowing which functions to keep in the field and which to centralize at Corporate (the idea of a central "typing pool" to format resumes and perform reference checks is ludicrous, for instance)

      These facets of building a leading edge company all become easily seen when these relationships are understood.

      Of course, you must have the right people in the right positions, too - people who understand the importance of the relationships of positions, and build accordingly, for the good of the company/stockholders....corporate politics can destroy a company.



    • ...they are the driving force of this business. But I would suggest that, in order to build a sustainable, scalable operation, one must look at all relationships - beyond the Recruiter and Candidate or Account Manager and Client. Not to minimize these relationships, but to emphasize those that are often unrealized or taken for granted, relationships to consider are, in no particular order, as they are all important in their own ways:

      Internal Relationships
      (Corporate refers to all corporate categories � AP,AR, HR/Benefits, etc.)

      Corporate to Field/Field to Corporate
      Sub-categories as follows:
      Corporate to Field Mgmt/Field Mgmt to Corporate
      Corporate to Field Associates/Field Associates to Corporate
      Corporate to Field Admin./Field Admin. to Corporate

      Field Mgmt to Field Mgmt (product line to product line)
      Field Mgmt to Field Mgmt (market to market/product line to product line)
      Field Mgmt to Field Associates/Field Associates to Field Mgmt.
      Field Mgmt to Field Admin./Field Admin. to Field Mgmt.
      Field Associates to Field Admin./Field Admin. to Field Assoc.
      Field Associates to Field Associates

      External Relationships
      (Field refers to all field categories indicated above; Corporate refers to all corporate categories)

      Field to Client/Client to Field
      Field to Candidate/Candidate to Field
      Corporate to Client/Client to Corporate
      Corporate to Candidate/Candidate to Corporate

      Client to Candidate/Candidate to Client
      Candidate to Potential Candidate/Potential Candidate to Candidate

      Client to Client

      Client to Competition/Competition to Client
      Candidate to Competition/Competition to Candidate

      Relationships may appear redundant � the intent here is to reinforce the fact that each relationship is directly or indirectly integrated and requires a dialogue, or input and feedback from both sides of the particular relationship in order to maximize effectiveness.

      Understanding these relationships, it also is imperative to understand what impact actions by one group will have not only on groups with whom there is a direct relationship but, by extension, the other relationships of each of those groups. As an example, someone posted that they are now required to set aside 8 hours per week to work on call center generated candidates. What impact will this have on the Associate/Candidate relationship if the Associate, located in the field, has direct and instantaneous knowledge of the hottest job openings but the Call Center employee does not�might the Associate be routed candidates who are not fits for current, hot openings? Might the Associate, being mandated to speak with these candidates have a poor attitude when talking to these candidates (waste of time not working on what is "closest to the dollar"�.might the Candidate sense the Associate's attitude and come away feeling less than impressed with KFRC; feeling more like a commodity than a human being?...might that Candidate speak poorly of her/his experience with the recruiter...of course, there are those who would say that a recruiter's professionalism should be maintained regardless of the situation, but maintaining composure can be hard enough under the best of circumstances (particularly in this environment) - poorly conceived internal mandates should not be added to the staffing equation.


    • bill carson is a product of what happens to a person after a tour in romac. the strongest people alive have broke under the living conditions at romac where russian rollette and tree bark under the finger nails are considered compensation items. i once watched a drone pick 40 lashes over a $50 gift certificate because the certificate required you to physically duct tape a phone receiver to your temple and to try to sell through the wrong end. i always thought physical pain was more bearable then the mental pain endured at romac. i dont feel bad for the people who got out like bill. you can just hand them a slobber cloth and send them on their merry way. the drones who remain are the people you pray and weep for today.

    • wevebeenscrewed has put it best. eventually you will/may need a recruiter. this is a relationship business above and beyond anything else. unfortunately, that is not stressed enough. some relationships take longer than others to come to fruition.

      if recruiters think that you can show up one day, and just are in the wrong seat. be prepared to invest in your end result for up to a year, sometimes longer; before you see results.

      if more recruiters had this attitude...then half the posts (see billcarson) wouldn't be on here...

    • DUH! Don't you realize many profiles are not their "real" profiles!!!!!!????

    • Opinions are like A******S Everyone has one. Like all professions there are quality people and people who give the profession a bad name. Finding a good recruiter is like trying to find a good mechanic or a good doctor. It takes some trial and error. No one is perfect. The people who have had bad experiences with recruiters seem to be the ones who have dealt with people who do not understand the business or have no people skills. That is why larger firms are having problems. They never understood the concept of taking care of the people who do quality work. Truly unfortunate. For the people who have had bad experiences I suggest talking to other co-workers who have had fruitful experiences with a recruiter. I could go on and on about this. Bottom line is if you do not want to work with a recruiter that is your choice. Be aware that there will a time when you will need the assistance of a good recruiter and that a good recruiter is a valuable asset to you and should be viewed as such rather than a hinderance. For all those people who feel their egos and feelings have been bruised by a recruiter get over it and go find a true professional.

    • First off even though we are on a Kforce board your attacks have been on the profession not the the company. Next, I follow the industry as a whole, I could give a rats a** if the entire Kforce executive board reads these posting, other than I would question why. And finally, as most people that have been in the industry any length of time are now doing I work independantly. Nationals are loosing accounts left and right to recruiters like me, ironically for the exact reasons you have stated. I have a start to finish relationship with clients, I only send quality, and I screen out the exessive pool of laid off bloated waannbes that were promoted when there was lots of cash around but were the first to go when things dried up.

    • Say what you will, but my and I I'm sure other recruiter's relationships are as strong as ever. It's all about the personal relationship with these companies. And, if you are a recruiter worth anything, you're never working with HR. My four best clients are as strong as they are, b/c I'm forged relationships with Sr Mgt, including the President, who mandate their HR depts and dept heads utilize me. Even for retainers! Granted that didn't happen over-night, but the fact remains, Sr. level executives will always see the value in time-saving searches. In the end, there is something that a good recruiter can do, you'll never do as a company (unless you are unethical), we can contact people who are currently working and not looking for an opportunity. With the notable exception of banks, this very rarely happens with most companies for fear of law suits or even retaliation by having their own employees taken.

      It always amazes me how loud-mouth, know-it-all clients like you, seem to think that the market is "filled" with eager employees looking to be hired. That tells me you know little about the market. And, it is because of you and that fact, that I will always have a job. The irony (and may I say very gratifying) is when people like you pick up the phone and call a recruiter b/c you may be downsized. I've gotten countless calls from pain-in-the-ass clients that would string me along, that call for help. My response is this, "Great. Send me your resume...I'll get back to you in 4 months. My client is taking a while to decide. You understand, right?"

      • 2 Replies to getoclue34
      • I like your response. Very well put

      • Great post, "GET". I agree. Posters like that are bitter for being over-looked by recruiters who probably found out quickly that they were complete idiots to work with. Anyone in the business reading this post, knows exactly what I'm talking about! The candidate who "tells" you what you should do, because after all, "you work for them!"

        These people fee joy because they think we don't have the business we once did and love to lecture everyone why recruiters are obsolete.

        Go complain to your boss, who is most likely annoyed with you. Or you can take it out on your staff. That is of course if they are still there - - - they're probably talking to a recruiter about new opportunities - - - something about their jack-ass manager.

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