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Ascential Software Corp. (ASCL) Message Board

  • sportime31 sportime31 Apr 5, 2002 11:01 AM Flag

    Another possibility...

    While i feel that ascl has an excellent business idea, i cannot see them as a stand alone business entity. I believe that their present technology model offers a limited future.

    What makes more sense to me is their being taken over by a storage technology company such as an emc or ibm.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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    • Per a news release today, they are pushing the 3rd party solution providers, and no doubt there are many good integrators out there.

      The problem is, that a customer would need to deal with at least 2 parties to do, it seems, what ASCL can provide "in-house", and then there's still the issue of speed. I'm not seeing a word on performance benchmarks.

      http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/020408/lam087_1.html

      Of course, I have no idea what is going on with ASCL developers, but if ASCL is combining at least some of the functions mentioned within the product, you'd deal with ASCL, or one of the BI vendors in partnership.

      Then, the question still remains whether HYSL, as an example, would prefer selling using ASCL, or going through, for example:

      "...Working in tandem with Informatica, Yaletown Technology Group has delivered the newest version of a metadata integration solution that enables the swift exchange of multi-dimensional metadata between the Informatica Repository and the Hyperion Integration Server. Yaletown also continues to help evolve products that provide a fast way to easily import metadata from leading entity relationship data modeling tools and ERP applications into the Informatica Metadata Repository..."

      Looks like both product sets can get you to the same place, which leaves it to total price, complexity of installation, and performance.

      I'll let people working in the area address those points. Unfortunately, not many objective voices hereabouts.

      Here's an overall useful link for BI articles:

      http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/featuredTopic/0,290042,sid13_gci815307,00.h
      tml


      Peace (spelled POWELL)

    • There has also been no comment on the fact that before ASCL bought MetaRecon, Metagenix was an INFA partner. That link has been removed from both company's websites, but if you do a google search for "INFORMATICA METAGENIX" you'll see the links that used to be. Funny that the INFA apologists haven't talked about that one.

    • I spoke to Joe on the phone a number of times, and then he got it into his head that I'm a reincarnation of Mata Hari, and that was that. I have nothing at all against Joe, but I have other things to do in my life.

      In the words of Ricky Nelson (approx.) - You can't please everyone, so you've just got to please yourself.

      Bush made another contribution to world confusion today, in addition to another policy shift on Palestine:

      http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=020407&cat=politics&st=politicsmi
      deastbushdc.html


      The China gaffe:

      http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020407/wl_nm/china_usa_dc_15

      BEIJING (Reuters) - The United States told China President Bush had made a mistake when he called Taiwan a country in a speech last week, the official Xinhua news agency reported on Sunday.

      Washington told China the U.S. government has not changed its Taiwan policy and said it would not refer to Taiwan in that way again, Xinhua quoted a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman as saying.

      Reports in Taiwanese newspapers on Friday said Bush called the island the "Republic of Taiwan" and a "country" in a speech to diplomats and business executives on Thursday.

      Calling Taiwan a country would threaten to compromise a major pillar of Sino-U.S. relations, which were set up in 1979 largely based on a U.S. nod to the "one China" principle, which states that Taiwan is a part of China.

      (more in story)

    • Give Joe Lumbley a call and wake him up. There is no way I can talk tech with you, I'm strickly a finance guy.

      One good point you did make recently that goes beyond all the good product information is that all we need know is an economy.

      I'm patient, there are good times ahead.

    • Sometimes it feels like the Yahoo ASCL board has been annexed by INFA apologists.

      Why has no one commented, one way or the other, on ASCL's new "connection" to Iway?:

      http://www.iwaysoftware.com/partner_program/index.html

      "Based in the Research Triangle Park (RTP) area of Raleigh, NC, Metagenix sells MetaRecon�, the industry's leading solution for data profiling and analysis. MetaRecon analyzes source data and provides recommendations for designing target databases with primary keys, foreign keys, table splits, normalization, dimensions, measures, and views of the data. iWay Software's Enterprise Integration Suite furnishes enterprise database connectivity for MetaRecon, giving it a complete and thorough understanding of any corporate data source. This information is critical in applications like ERP, CRM, Data Warehouse, and Business Intelligence."

      You will note that ASCL just purchased MetaRecon ...

      I remember when this place was a source of information.

    • "But ASCL has changed the rules. Sure, you can use Striva to get data connections up quickly and move data, but ASCL is now selling against the Garbage-In, Garbage-Out paradigm. It doesn't matter how quickly INFA can move garbage. With the ASCL solution, a customer will see that they can actually produce meaningful results"

      the rules have not changed yet....it will be a good attempt, but it wont work....the industry is longing for faster, cheaper and less risky implementations....the same reasons that applications like R/3 and PeopleSoft exploded...while ASCL attempts to sell to the IT folks with $100K budget, INFA will be selling faster/cheaper/less risky solutions to CIO's for $600K. gotta get your end outta the sand and learn to understand the big picture about growing a company, adding value to the customer and to the shareholder.

      At the end of the day, there are stronger solutions than Vality and Metagenix on the market for your garbage-in baloney, so while ASCL will try to sell the "unintegrated" offering to IT; INFA will sell their cheaper/faster/less risky stack to the CIO..... who do you really think is going win that battle?

    • "INFA is going to have to get back into the game if they want to remain in the ETL space. Clearly, they don't care about ETL because they haven't answered any of these moves from ASCL. "

      Before making comments like this, ASCL should probably win at least one sales cycle over INFA. Not care about ETL? Gee, I guess you know very little about this space considering everything INFA does is about ETL.

      With PG overpaying for tier 3 companies, sdo you really think he is adding to shareholder value? Lets think logically about this.....

    • I disagree with the assertion that you need to be a Cobol programmer to install I-Way (if that's what he meant). A knowledge of Cobol is helpful, but there's no programming required.

      The world is changing on INFA, though.

      >>>>>>>>>>>INFA is whipping ASCL due to Striva. In a 2 day POC what can you do with a code generator or iway, maybe get it installed if you are lucky. With an agent based solution you can do the complete job and show the customer actual data moved.

      But ASCL has changed the rules. Sure, you can use Striva to get data connections up quickly and move data, but ASCL is now selling against the Garbage-In, Garbage-Out paradigm. It doesn't matter how quickly INFA can move garbage. With the ASCL solution, a customer will see that they can actually produce meaningful results.

      How does this affect a POC? Many customer have in the past (and almost all will in the future as ASCL coaches them on how to do it) placed "problems" in their data to see what happens when the ETL tool runs into difficulty. With the INFA approach, you'll very quickly run into the problems, which more than negates and time you saved by using Striva over I-Way. With the ASCL approach, you've cut your total implementation time by 75%, because the real time in a POC is in the debugging necessary to get the jobs right for that particular customer.

      What can INFA do in response? Partner with Evoke for $1M a license?

      Throw in the difference in performance of Orchestrate vs INFA, and that day of time INFA saved with Striva gets eaten up trying to read the first three terabytes.

      What will INFA do if ASCL buys Striva? INFA can't possibly get in a bidding war with ASCL over a right of first refusal (if they have one). A Striva purchase would be the perfect complement to the rest of their strategy, and is right in line with being a "data integration" company.

      What if ASCL buys I-Way, and just improves the installation so that it can be set up in a day?

      INFA is going to have to get back into the game if they want to remain in the ETL space. Clearly, they don't care about ETL because they haven't answered any of these moves from ASCL.

    • You will notice that I asked a question, not made a criticism.

      I took one term of Cobol back in the 1960's when NYU had an IBM 1401, which they were very proud of, because it had 32K main memory, and stood as big as a refrigerator. Never worked with any of that - in Wall Street 1959-1979. I could not break into computing, despite some other courses, because you needed "work experience" first - you know the drill. I began in multivalue in 1979, and have been there ever since.

      Using variable-length fields and unlimited item-size records, I think of this entire area as a dinosaur.

      You gave a lot of information, which I found useful, but wrapped it in an INFA commercial throughout, which goes to explain your attitude,

      That arrogance is going to be INFA's weak spot, just as it was Ellison's. Is Striva the only company in the business? (see the bottom of the post for some news...)

      Since other readers may also not be involved with this area, here's a link to Striva's FAQ page, so they can read up for themselves, as I'm doing.

      http://www.striva.com/faq.htm

      INFA is not the only ETL partner I recognize, also Sagent and Acta (this is where you insert another INFA commercial). They've partnered with quite a few per the "news" page. Why, then, is this unique for INFA?

      http://www.striva.com/partners.htm

      http://www.striva.com/news.htm

      Now, Iway has very very interesting solutions as well, addressing Biztalk and Websphere.

      http://www.iwaysoftware.com/products/microsoft/biztalk.html

      But, if you'd done any due diligence, and HERE'S THE KEY, you might have found this:

      http://www.iwaysoftware.com/partner_program/index.html

      "Based in the Research Triangle Park (RTP) area of Raleigh, NC, Metagenix sells MetaRecon�, the industry's leading solution for data profiling and analysis. MetaRecon analyzes source data and provides recommendations for designing target databases with primary keys, foreign keys, table splits, normalization, dimensions, measures, and views of the data. iWay Software's Enterprise Integration Suite furnishes enterprise database connectivity for MetaRecon, giving it a complete and thorough understanding of any corporate data source. This information is critical in applications like ERP, CRM, Data Warehouse, and Business Intelligence."

      You will note that ASCL just purchased MetaRecon ...

    • Pick: you clearly know nothing about this space. COBOL code generation was declared dead years ago. Why? Because you need COBOL programmers.... doh

      The list of old cobol code generators is Prism, ETI, Carleton to name a few. Where are they now? Prism = ASCL. ETI is bust, no one works there anymore. Oracle paid $8m for Carleton a couple of years ago and they have already stopped using it. An old EDA/SQL (iway) guy was the VP who bought it for Oracle � woops

      The world has moved to intelligent agents that without any code generation can directly extract data from complex structures like IMS, Adabas and VSAM and make it look like a relational database. No programming, tools that Unix and PC people can use, once installed you never need to touch the mainframe, massive productivity benefits, once a customer sees this going back to code generation is dead on arrival

      INFA is whipping ASCL due to Striva. In a 2 day POC what can you do with a code generator or iway, maybe get it installed if you are lucky. With an agent based solution you can do the complete job and show the customer actual data moved.

      Now the big move is to capturing changes from the old legacy systems, as the idea of moving huge blobs of data around the network all the time is stupid when all you need to to is to move the stuff that changed. Guess who has the only solution in the world for the old complex legacy stuff � INFA-Striva, geddit. ASCL are way behind the leading edge and soon will be invisible on the horizon

      Why did the dinosaurs die out....

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