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  • turtlewobbler turtlewobbler Jul 13, 2006 11:50 PM Flag

    GO ISRAEL!!!!!

    Gotta love it. They could kick the entire Muslim world if they wanted to...just what we need to send those sand jockeys packing.

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    • Back in Solomon�s days, the place was thriving yes. By 70 AD it was not thriving in the same respect. By the mid 1800s (AD) the place was desolate - all that you are imagining it was in Solomon�s days and even in the days of Christ was no longer - even Christ himself predicted that was they way it would become. There were only nomadic Arabs roaming the land by mid 1800s and the Jews bought this land from the then Ottoman Empire and associated cronies. They effectively became the rightful owners once again � only this time they bought the land � they did drive out the Canaanites as what they originally did in Aaron�s days.

      Remember the Muslims dispute the Jews ever building a temple in Jerusalem and are systematically destroying any evidence of this as we speak. They even go as far to say their Mosque that is now situated on the �dome� was built by Adam !! Yeah right � when out of the 3 religions Judaism, Christian and Islam � Islam is the youngest and Judaism is older than Islam by nearly 3000 years !!!

    • "The land was so desolate no one wanted to live there."

      You just made your own words obsolete. If the land was so bad, why they were there before 70AD? They should thank the romans to drive them out then?

    • Thanks for your most informative posts. I talked about this situation some time back and also felt the sting of sticks and stones. I dare not mention the word Jew in place of Israeli because that means I am anti-semitic. Thanks to the League of Nations and the United Nations Israel now exists from land taken from the Arabs. Perhaps they would have received less problems if they took the land from the USA, say New York, instead. lol! At least if Israel was New York we wouldn't have to spend so many BILLIONS IN AID TO ISRAEL... they would be at our back door. Here come the sticks and stones... my head is covered!

    • Yes Yusfdbk I understand now where you are coming from.

      I have no doubt you also believe the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated and carried out by the CIA � just as the majority of Middle Eastern Muslims do.

      You obviously sympathize with the Muslims and perhaps you are Muslim yourself. Each to their own.

      I�ve lived and traveled through various Islamic countries over a 12-year period from Somalia to Morocco. Like I said, the whole area is a mess. No matter whom you sympathize with - you or anyone on this board or even in this world - while we have such opposing opinions won�t change it. If factions of the extreme fervently believe and dictate Israel has no right to exist - and God help any country supporting the existence of Israel � then the area has no hope.

      I by no means advocate Israel and the Jewish people as demi-Gods, or innocent in the way they conduct their affairs - but I do recognize they have a right to exist.

      Remember they did pull out of Lebanon. They did pull out of Gaza. Why can�t the Muslim world leave them be? They can�t because they don�t believe the descendants of Jacob have any further right to exist and its now the descendants of Ishmael that carry that right. They will not give up until the last square inch in Tel Aviv is given up and turned into a Muslim state.

      Islam is an extremely peaceful religion � provided your Muslim.

    • This is an interesting forum to be discussing politics of this nature but I would like to put my two cents in (since that is all that RAMBUS has left me to play with).

      There is no doubt that Isreal is the victim here. The capturing of soldiers and thus POW is an act of war. With that being said I believe that the Palestinian people deserve a state of there own for exactly the same reason that Isreal deserves there own state. That being that when WW2 began no country in the world (not even the US) would take in the refugees of genocide. No ARAB nation in the world will allow the Palestianins to live within there borders. If you review the Palestianian history the greatest killer of Palestinians is the Kingdom of Jordan. When the Palestinians tried to overthrow the King of Jordan he had 1,000,000 Palestinian refugees EXECUTED (ARAB GENOCIDE UPON ARABS).

      However if the Palestinain factions is not willing to share this common piece of ancestrial land (which in reality NO ONE owns at best they get to use it for a few thousand years) then as with all biological systems the strongest will pervail. The only reason that natural selection has not allready selected against the Palestinian people is the historical significance of the HOLOCAST to the Isrealis and how sensitive the Jewish people are to the total destruction of another people. This is why that the only country to TELEGRAPGH their imminient attack to the enemey is ISRAEL.

      (Please forgive spelling errors I am typing without checking)

    • To the contrary, your post was too irrational to respond to.

      Read my other posts. They adequately refute your factually weak and biased response.

    • This is an interesting forum to be discussing politics of this nature but I would like to put my two cents in (since that is all that RAMBUS has left me to play with).

      There is no doubt that Isreal is the victim here. The capturing of soldiers and thus POW is an act of war. With that being said I believe that the Palestinian people deserve a state of there own for exactly the same reason that Isreal deserves there own state. That being that when WW2 began no country in the world (not even the US) would take in the refugees of genocide. No ARAB nation in the world will allow the Palestianins to live within there borders. If you review the Palestianian history the greatest killer of Palestinians is the Kingdom of Jordan. When the Palestinians tried to overthrow the King of Jordan he had 1,000,000 Palestinian refugees EXECUTED (ARAB GENOCIDE UPON ARABS).

      However if the Palestinain factions is not willing to share this common piece of ancestrial land (which in reality NO ONE owns at best they get to use it for a few thousand years) then as with all biological systems the strongest will pervail. The only reason that natural selection has not allready selected against the Palestinian people is the historical significance of the HOLOCAST to the Isrealis and how sensitive the Jewish people are to the total destruction of another people. This is why that the only country to TELEGRAPGh their imminient attack to the enemey is ISRAEL.

      (Please forgive spelling errors I am typing without checking)

    • "but when the Jews decided to settle back in their "old" holy land after the mass persecution in Europe in the early to mid 19th century - the Jews did not have to drive anyone out from these lands - there was no one there!! It was there for their taking. It was nothing short of a miracle."

      What total bullsh*t.

      all of the towns that have been underseige since the Israeli occupation were occupied by Arab Muslims and Christians,and as of 1920 about 20000 Arab Jews, most of whom had live on the land literally for centuries.

      Even today, in the towns and villages throughout Palestine and Israel, there are orchards of olive trees that have been in constant cultivation, some of them since the days of Moses.

      Many of those mowed down by Israeli bull dozers to dispossess the Palestinians living there were planted and have been in use for 1000 to 2000 years. Others of course are only a few hundred years old.

      "A land without people". What a complete crock. Jerusalem has been in continuous occuaption and use.

      About 700000 thousan Palestinians were driven out of their homes just in the first two years of the founding of the Jewish state.

      The only "land without a people" in Palestine or Israel is the land stripped of its population when the IDF and its predecessors drove the Palestinians from their ancestral homes and land.

      This is one of the "big lies" repeated by every supporter of the Israeli land grab. It has not factual basis what so ever.

      Even in the time of the Roman empire Palestine was cultivated, occupied, literate, well developed.

      Jesus had to go out into the wilderness in order to "wander in the wilderness" during his temptation. Google for art from the earliest days of the Catholic church. Palestine was and is a regular destination of pilgramage, since at least the 3rd century BCE. The crusaders didn't find Palestine, or Acre, ro Trye, or Jerusalem or Bethlehem or the lands where they built their crusader castles empty. They weren't then and they weren't in the 1930s and 40s, as they are not today.

      The land of Palestine, and especially Jerusalem and the West Bank, was "emptied" by the Israelis, with the help of Irgun, the Stern mob, and the IDF deliberately, and as a well articulated policy from the inception of the Israel as an idea, then a state, to today.

    • jacko

      I know a little more about the region and its history than you believe.

      The History Lessons you posted are highly sanitized, but the dates and rough outline is reasonably accurate.

      The history lesson ignores most of the crimes committed against the Arab population from begining to the present day.

      That is not to say that the Palestinians are free of atrocities. But do the body count, and see who hs been driven out and marginalized.

      It is certainly not the Israelis, whose numbers have grown in by millions, predominently immigrants from Russia, Germany and Poland, although there is a significant representation of Arab Jews and a much smaller number from Africa.

      During the same period Palestinian refugees have grown in comparable numbers, driven from Palestine, Israel and Jerusalem.

      These are the simple facts, however one wishes to justify them or blame the Palestinians or the Arabs as the cause of the problem.

      Many and not just me would call the forced removal of the Palestinians begining in the 1940s "ethnic cleansing". Others, and I include myself, consider that Israel has dealt with the Palestinians by creating a series of Bantustans, or perhaps it is better to call them ghettos, as it it a term that the Jews of Europe can relate to, where every breath you take, and whether you live or die, your right to enter or leave for an hour or a day, your access to food, water and health care, to work and an income, and even your life is under the absolute minute by minute control of a well armed military power, which will not hesitate to deprive you of any or all of the above, for any real or imagined provocation, sometimes, apparently sometimes just for the sport of it.

      And like the Jews in Germany, for most Palestinians, these fenced in ghettos used to be their ancestral homes and lands.

      There is no way Israel can achieve freedom or peace and security for itself so long as it continues to imprison and an entire people with whom it shares the land.

    • I am intimately acquainted with the history you reference. It is accurate if sketchy.

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