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Rambus Inc. Message Board

  • rambusriches rambusriches Aug 17, 2000 4:09 PM Flag

    El Diablo: Do you think MU will risk

    What is at stake if they lose?

    8 years of
    Not being able to produce any type of ram -
    ddr/sdram/rdram? what if they lose and rmbs decides they don't
    want to issue MU manufacturing rights?
    Will they
    risk everything? RMBS has nothing to lose? They have
    built their entire business model around this strategy.

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    • you are not debating you dumbass, you didnt even
      give me an answer, you know why? because you have no
      answer, you know that rmbs knows what it is doing, you
      are trying to put yourself in rmbs shoes and say what
      you would do if you were rmbs, well appartently you
      are not on the board of directors, just because you
      think rmbs not going after mu first means that rmbs
      cases are not airtight doesnt mean you are right, just
      means you are thinking too much, hey remember, you are
      not a research analyst, come on wake up, get that
      fantasy out of your head, so your opinions dont matter to
      rmbs nor to the people on this message board, because
      all i can see is people telling you to stop
      bullshiting, so hmm? yes you are in america, but i guess you
      are an exception. feel special? still a dumbass (el

    • A lawsuit "to the end" WOULD last 2-3 years. Of
      course, if the memory maker lost, damages (possibly
      tripled) would just keep accumulating on all of the
      production that was occuring. And once a verdict was
      obtained (but before the appeal) Rambus MIGHT be able to
      get an injunction shutting down production of the
      infringing memory.

      In the above time frame, "to the
      end" includes an appeal. Figure, probably, 18-24
      months for the case and almost that long again for the
      appeal(s), but it can vary greatly. Note that once the
      verdict is out, and pending the appeals, injunctions
      probably WOULD be granted and/or the memory maker would
      have to post a HUGE cash bond (could be hundreds of
      millions) to continue making the products in

      You may not be old enough to remember it, but in the
      70's Kodak made an instant camera and Polaroid sued
      them for patent infringement. The case took a couple
      of years, perhaps three. It was an utter disaster
      for Kodak. They had to BUY BACK (with a cash check)
      every single camera that they had ever made,
      discontinue production of the film and the camera, AND write
      out a cash check to Polaroid for, I think, over $1
      BILLION dollars [remember, this was in the 70's, when a
      Billion dollars was a significant amount of money

      That's the kind of thing that really can happen in a
      patent infringement case that is lost. Companies really
      do get put COMPLETELY out of existence over patent
      infringement suits.

      For Rambus, however, the worst case
      loss is that they lose SOME of their patents (or, even
      more mildly, just SOME OF THE CLAIMS on SOME of their
      patents, possibly without losing ANY patents in their
      entirety). Remember that Rambus has about 100 patents issued
      with about 100 more applied for and this case only
      involves about a dozen of them in any way, and only a few
      specific claims within each of those. The downside risks
      for the two parties to a patent infringement lawsuit
      are not even close to equal. For the infringer, they
      can be put completely out of business, while the risk
      to the patent holder is minimal.

    • find one post of mine that has "Rambus won get
      used to it". Although I do agree with TF2000 who does
      post it.

      You make yourself look really bad by
      trying to play in the majors when you should be playing
      high school ball. Get it? If you don't get it, keep
      trying to argue your points. How else will I ROFLMAO.

    • It's not open and shut, BUT we were arguing the
      consequences in a hypothetical situation whose very definition
      was that the case HAD gone to court AND Rambus had

      THAT PART is absolutely clear. The uncertainty lies in
      the part about Rambus winning in court, not in the
      part about the consequences of a win.

      As to the
      Dell case, this has been gone over a million times.
      Dell was asked by VESA to sign an agreement giving up
      it's patent rights AND DID SO. It was only when they
      LATER tried to enfoce the patents that the FTC and the
      courts intervened. And you need to know what happened
      there: the patent was NOT invalidated. Rather, Dell
      signed a consent decree agreeing not to demand royalties
      FROM VESA MEMBERS (only). The patent itself remained
      valid and even enforceable against non-VESA

      The key point, however, is that Rambus was asked to
      sign an essentially similar agreement by JEDEC and not
      only DID NOT SIGN, but resigned from it's membership
      in JEDEC entirely.

      They are VERY different
      situations. ANYONE should be able to see that, just as
      Toshiba's and Hitachi's attorneys were able to see it.

    • Ya dude, go smoke a bong, and keep posting messages on how RAMBUS WON GET USED TO IT!

    • " you just keep your opinions to yourself."

      Ya, for a moment there I forgot I was in America.

    • Dude, your posts are getting more and more
      nonsense. Give it up. You don't know RMBS's plans, you are
      not a lawyer, and you don't know what some company
      like Micron might or might not do if faced with a law
      suit. So what the hell exactly are you arguing? Shut
      the hell up already.

    • But...How long would the lawsuit last? If it
      lasted several years we may be into memory beyond Rdram
      or DDR, you can't stop someone from making memory
      they're already not making. Plus several years would give
      them enough time if they still were producing
      something similar to find a work around if

      Secondly, whoever wins or loses a court fight is almost
      definitely going to file an appeal, who knows how long that
      might drag on. IMHO, the odds are eventually everyone
      will settle, but for what, that's the question. If
      Rambus gets everyone to settle for token amounts, big

    • you are not a lawyer, and you are not a research
      analyst either, so how would if rmbs had an airtight case
      they would go right after micron? what do you know
      about rmbs? do you know their exact game plan? do you
      think they are too dumb to handle their own business,
      so someone like you should be hired to tell rmbs
      that they should be going after the big names first?
      dude you dont know shit, so stop trying to tell people
      what rmbs should and should not be doing, rmbs knows
      exactly what they are doing and so far, i think most
      people would agree that rmbs is right on track and is
      doing what their game plan consists of. So rmbs would
      have and should have does not count when it comes from
      your mouth. you are not in the board of directors, so
      you just keep your opinions to yourself.

    • The result could be very dismall for them. Given
      the margin of memory is very thin, losers will get
      charged with high loyalties fee vs. the negotiators
      (little boys).
      For example, if Infineon lose the case,
      they may get charged 3% instead of 1.5% like OKI and
      And if Infineon lose, its big competitors (eg. MU,
      Mitsubishi...) will like to give in for a smaller loyalty fee.
      So it can have an edge over Infineon,

      So, I think that Infineon is not stupid to become its
      competitor's shield. Why not give up and let the next guy
      along the line take the bullet. Now, you can see the
      domino effect, until the last piece (BIGGEST boy), then
      the fight is really begin.

      But then, the
      biggest boy will think that if I risk it, I will be
      doomed if I lose. So, I should give in and still stay as
      a leader, since everybody pay the same

      That is why you don't see RMBS takes on Mitsubishi or
      MU right away. It is picking one by one;

      So, question is: who's really want to stand up to
      take RMBS bullet for their enemies?
      I have not
      heard anything like that in human history.

      you play "Romance" in N64 or Sony Playstation, you
      will knows what I meant. If you have time, read the
      books, 7 volumes, each about 500 pages (well atleast in
      my language). Then, you will see RMBS will unite all
      the memory market.

      • 3 Replies to ee_knows_tech
      • If I were a big memory maker and I wanted to
        fight "to the end", I'd do it by having a SMALL memory
        maker or subsidiary do the actual fighting, funded by
        me (the big memory maker).

        As an example (oh
        God, I'm REALLY going to start something now), if I
        were Hitach and wanted to fight "to the end", I'd let
        the NEC-Hitachi joint venture do the fighting. If the
        joint venture lost, it simply gets liquidated back to
        it's partners (Hitachi and NEC) and no great
        catastrophic loss has occured. The joint venture can afford to
        cease to exist. Hitachi and NEC THEMSELVES

        In fact, if I were Hitachi and this was the strategy
        I was planning, I would WANT for HITACHI THEMSELVES
        to have a valid Rambus license for ALL Rambus and
        other (contested) products BEFORE I started ANY of the
        legal action. This way, it wouldn't be possible for
        Rambus to deny me a license later, based on my role in
        the initial infringement and on the subsequent (dirty
        and expensive) legal battle.

        Now that I've
        opened this can of worms, let me remind everyone that
        the NEC-Hitachi joint venture was formed long BEFORE
        there was ANY discussion of Rambus owning or licensing
        patents to the SDRAM and DDR technologies. The
        Hitachi-NEC joint venture was NOT formed FOR THIS PURPOSE.
        However, that would not prevent Hitachi and NEC from
        pursuing such a tactic if they were so inclined.

      • What do you mean "Romance"? Romance of the Three Kingdoms? I love to play that game. One can learn a lot by playing strategy games!

      • The MM's had a chance to join Hitachi's lawsuit,
        for whatever reason they declined. IMHO, they never
        expected Hitachi to fold, so why join. If Infineon decides
        to counter sue, so far the indications are they
        will, expect the MM's to support Infineon if not
        openly, at least behind the scenes. There's a bigger
        picture here than just the MM's, the Hitachi lawsuit
        included Sega, an OEM. Rambus already opened Pandora's box
        by threatening an OEM, the MM's can't afford to let
        this situation go on, it reaches beyond them now. Also
        anyone who manufacturers controllers will also be
        affected, ei. Intel, Apple, Motorola, IBM etc. Do you
        really think everybody's going to roll over and pay?

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