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Collectors Universe Inc. Message Board

  • jimjca jimjca Aug 22, 2002 8:58 PM Flag

    Why so negative here?

    I think that having a slight operating loss with an overall gain is certainly a heck of a lot better then an operating loss of $2.2 million, and an overall loss of $1.5 million like the same Q last year. Also, their revenues were higher. Personally, I would love to see gradual improvements like this every year! This should end any talk about CLCT actually being in trouble.

    Just my opinion however.

    JJacks

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    • A publically-traded company that grades collectibles is just plain silly. Hence, the silly stock price of 70 cents per share. It doesn't get much sillier than that.

    • James,
      You must not be aware that I have been around as long as you have? I won't pick out the known crooks on your list. But they most certainly are there. Some real scum bags. Several I don't know at all. And no doubt most of your list is made up of good honest people. When I talk of a coin dealer making it, we are not talking about staying in a small shop or working as an employee. I am talking about being seven figures ahead. Should also tell you I have been buying from the public for 25+ years. I see the trash these dealers send out. As I go back over your list, I can't believe you have no idea about some of those guys? Anyway, played the road for many years and most of the shows too.
      I speak from experience, not speculation.
      Great effor though.
      Terrible T

    • You wrote: The company "grades" collectible coins, cards, and stamps. The process of affixing a rating to a particular collectible piece is arbitrary at best, and I would even go so far as to say self-serving on the part of CLCT.

      I speak as a very knowledgable collector. You're wrong. Grading services are not perfect, they make mistakes. But I remember what it was like before David Hall stepped forward and had the guts to do something about the rampant problems.

      Again I'm telling it like it really is. Consider it your reality check. Don't be so mean spirited. It isn't becoming.

    • Fair enough.

      Your challenge is: "As you must know, a lot of coin dealers have went bust since 91. Rare is the coin dealer who made it without ripping some old lady�s guts out."

      Warren Mills Rare Coins of New Hampshire
      Charlie Brown Rare Coins of New Hampshire
      Paul Battaglia Rare Coins of New Hampshire
      Tom Noe Numismatic Investments Ohio
      Ed Leventhal J.J Teaparty
      Tom Caldwell Northeast Numismatics
      Entire Staff Pinnacle Rarities
      Larry Whitlow Larry Whitlow Ltd.
      Entire Staff David Lawrence Rare Coins
      Entire Staff Delaware Rare Coins
      Entire Staff National Gold Exchange
      Douglas Winter Douglas Winter Numismatics
      Maurice Rosen Rosen Numismatic Report
      Larry Hanks Hanks and Associates
      Sal Germane S&G Rare Coins
      John Albanese
      Bill Nagle
      Richard Hoffman
      Bill Conroy
      Bob Merrill
      John Danreuther
      Sil Diagonova
      Scott Travers
      Bill Shamhart
      Evan Gale
      Martin Paul
      Charles Anastasio
      Bruce Amspacher
      Tony Terranova
      Brian Hendelson
      David Hunt
      Jim Halprin
      Larry Demer
      Paul Nugget
      The Entire Staff at Spectrum Numismatics
      Warren Tucker
      The Entire Staff at Teletrade

      and even Kevin Lipton who always made me crazy but who was push come to shove always a mensch.

      These are just SOME of the people that I can think of off the top of my head � they�re many more -- that would never steal from an old lady or anyone else.

      Keep in mind there are many of the people on this list that I don't get along with -- in fact there's one I was involved in a lawsuit with, another two who were a close friends who did some really terrible things to me (out of jealousy) that they should be ashamed of. But I know from years of seeing them, knowing them as a dealer, as a journalist and as a collector that they are honest successful people and that they honor the industry.

      CLCT is a sell now. It has some things to fix. We agree on that. I hope you know the industry and will look over the list above and recognize that I speak truth.

      The world isn�t such a bad place. Please don�t be such a cynic.

    • James,
      The only thing you missed was that three secretaries would be all I need to keep track of all the operations. You would of course still have your main staff. Just a few less managers. Publishing is a different business. Get a hit there and you could be set for life. As you must know, a lot of coin dealers have went bust since 91. Rare is the coin dealer who made it without ripping some old ladys guts out. Trying to think of one????? Can't think of one that deals with the public. Anyway, good response. Appreciate it.
      Terrible T

    • And with all due respect, I think it may be high time for a little reality check.

      Reality Check #1:
      The share price is 71 cents.

      Reality Check #2:
      The company "grades" collectible coins, cards, and stamps. The process of affixing a rating to a particular collectible piece is arbitrary at best, and I would even go so far as to say self-serving on the part of CLCT.

      Reality Check #3:
      Delisting is just around the corner.

    • Agreed more people buy coins out of the slabs than in the slabs.

      But in terms of gross sales consumated each year -- slabbed coins represent an enoromous part of the market.

      While I'm a strong sell on CLCT for reasons stated you're clearly even more bearish. Why waste your time on CLCT? If the market is as you say mostly non slab buyers -- spending $2500 a year why invest in CLCT? It doesn't make sense. Clearly you understand if this company goes private -- any shares you hold will be irrelevent. You might want to look over other companies that saw its share price decimated and were later taken private. Stock holders don't do well.

      Stock holders would do well to try to help the company. These people are open, they want to succeed and they'd love to get their share price back up to $2, $3, even $6 again.

      I'm cheering for them but not blindly. I see the problems in their business model because I've confronted simuliar problems that I over came in my business during the past few years.

    • With respect I don't live in a fantasy world.

      I'm very pragmatic and sensible person. Further, I know the rare coin market inside and out. For all intense purposes I grew up in the business. I was one of the few to hold a 3.5% option on NGC. I worked for the largest companies in the business and on my own for many years. I was a crack out artist, retailer and talented wholesaler.

      I left the business in 1991 because I saw an incredible opportunity in publishing. This lead to my building a very successful company that yields me an income well into seven figures each year. All built on the back of efficient marketing.

      You are correct in asserting that it would be hard to find a CEO capable of bring CLCT to its potential. But not impossible. I have no problem with stock bonuses but they should be based on real performance -- bottom line results.

      I also agree that CLCT would be much more valuable if it were privately held. But this company isn't a one-man three-secretary business. That's just plain silly.

      While I'm not bullish on the company in its present state - I think it has enormous potential. I also think highly of many of the key people involved. Its a class act.

      They're marketing is off target and not designed to grab re-occurring revenues. They're not partnering with firms that can deliver a steady stream of re-occuring revenues. They're also not leveraging the Internet properly.

      Also, the marketing is NOT completely dependent on market conditions. Like many dealers you're buying into the dogma i.e... a good market is all that you need.

      Sorry, I live in the real world where you make your success regardless of the market adversity.

      I love collecting rare coins. I always did and always will. For the most part I really look fondly on all the dealers I did business with. I'd love to be more involved but my business and young family keeps me very busy.

      God bless

    • James,
      One more thing about your collectors club. This may be a shock to you, but the vast majority of coin collectors do not buy slab coins or ever have a coin slabbed. Not a chance. And they may attend one coin show a year at best. You think too much like a big shot. Try thinking like a collector who makes 40K a year. And spends $2500 a year on coins. Now what is your brilliant marketing plan? You want to be another Littleton and sell silver dimes for a buck?
      Terrible T

    • James,
      You live in a fantasy world. But that is ok. It is your world. Why prey tell would the individual you describe even be looking for a job? Let alone one for a small company? You are looking at CLCT all wrong. You must have a government contract. Overhead is what kills a company. Sales will always be at the mercy of the market. Nobody really controls the coin market. If it takes off, you can't stop it. If coins are dead, you can't buy enough to create a market.
      You should look for profitable arms to add to your business model. Not spend money looking to create business. An example might be to buy the supply company Whitman. Or even a couple of true major coin shows. Above all, be very carefull how you spend you very few dollars.
      CLCT will have its day, that is for sure. It just has to survive. Think I know more about that then some ex ceo of Quaker Oats or something. Insurance is already available. Buy an existing company or stay out of the business. And buy a profitable one.
      Any 67 ten indian should be a blazer. Like jumping out at you. Since it has been sent to you on approval, the dealer is expecting to make a few bucks more on it. If it was for sale, you would never have seen it. Best of luck getting a good deal on it. Although experience has taught me that quality always wins. Even while I wait on 67 proof morgan dollars to get back to 25K, I do believe they will. My opinions only of course.
      Terrible T

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