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Finjan Holdings, Inc. Message Board

  • kanto_rain kanto_rain May 24, 2008 6:25 AM Flag


    What happens to the inorganic waste that Converted Organics receives?

    Of course they offer a discount on tipping fees for purely organic waste, but they must compete with landfills. What garbage company is going to sort through plastics, tampons, and beer cans for a 20% discount?

    COIN is going to have to pay to haul off a bunch of garbage. Of course, since they are just leasing a portion of the Woodbridge recycling facility, they will most likely receive only the organic waste that the main plant gets... no tipping fees. The plant would get that.

    So, what happens to the inorganic waste that Converted Organics receives, and how can that not reduce the bottom line?

    Disclaimer: This is all hypothetical and assumes that COIN is not just a pump and dump stock scam...

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    • Woodbridge will be operational by the end of june. Guaranteed! And if you notice in the 10K, they will be at full scale (250 t..p.d.) within 4 to 6 months. By the way, was told that time frame is conservitive. Could be sooner.

      Now when you combine that with 150 t.p.d out of california, 4 quater 08, or 1st quater 09 will give us earnings of $1.50 per share, or a $30 stock price. Why would we be a seller to Scotts or anyone else fer $14?

    • No davey it wasn't private; however, there was a context related to the dialogue which you've attempted to distort and twist out of context.

      Anyway you're bringing up old topics which we've already discussed ad nauseum on this MB. And I've no desire to rehash the same material with you since your ability to add to the dialogue seems quite limited.

      So far all you've done is to parrot my comments and then add some standard short and distort rhetoric to fill the void in your commentary.

      As far as Paulson or anything goes, "why not" just twist anything you want out of context just to make your point. So far that's about all you've done.

      With Paulson, you want to keep going until you find something to twist out of context to discredit COIN. You've already tried to discredit COIN in your attempt to slander Paulson as "bottom tier."

      In fact, Paulson may look even better than "top tier" firms since the "top" nearly went bankrupt from overeating at the subprime buffet.

      Don't recall seeing Paulson out beggin because it suffered billions in subprime losses.

      I don't know much about Paulson but it fills a void by offering IB services to small companies.

      And your comment or question about warrants almost don't warrant reply since many well known companies have issued warrants. In fact, there are several well known companies with warrants:


      RTN - $26 billion Market Cap; NM - $1.4 billion MC; CQB - $997 million MC; CNO - $2 billion MC


      XIDE - $1 billion MC; EXPE - $6.2 billion MC; FWLT - $10 billion MC; IACI - $6 billion MC; VMED - $4.9 billion MC


      The Amex is loaded with warrants yet it has been the top performing domestic index over the last ten years.

      Chrysler issued a large quantity of warrants to the government as part of its bailout and its shareholder and the government still managed to benefit after Lee Iococca turned the company around - even with the wts.

      Warren Buffett and Berhkshire Hathaway recently exercised warrants to purchase a 16% stake in WTM.

      What constitutes "excessive warrants" other than your desire to twist any detail you can into a negative?

      The issue of "PR" is one of those "ad nauseum" topics that has been addressed ad nauseum.

      Regarding "PR," the company has no choice but to make announcement of any developments or change that might have a material impact on the business or the shares.

      Please don't bother with examples like the PR of the 2 new sales people as being example of hype PR.

      The two new hires amount to a material increase in the total number of employees on payroll and if anything, announced a material increase in payroll costs and a potential increase in the cost of goods sold. That's quite the opposite of hype. On the other hand, it places the company in better position to sell product, gain new customers and market share.

      Again, the company is required to release any such information.

      Regarding any implied recommendation to buy the shares:

      There you go twisting things out of context. At the very beginning of my comments, I point out:

      "there must be more that hate the shares than love since the shares have been going lower ... the stock is in a short term downtrend."

      And toward the end:

      "We need Woodbridge to open and begin operating at scale..."

      If anything, my commentary implies shareholders are losing money and have the potential for an even greater loss if Woodbridge fails to open or to meet expectations. And yes I do believe there is the potential for very big returns if the company succeeds but there is that big "IF" that is "implicit" in my commentary that essentially nullifies any implied buy recommendation.

    • Dearest Hoggey, if you were having a private dialogue with Kanto choosing a public message board was a poor choice but probably not your poorest given your postion in COIN. As far as insulting me goes, I'm certain I've been called far worse by far better. Hoggey: But actually, I'm glad there are so many bears in these hunting grounds because that has been good indication to me in the past. That's usually good indication we're onto something really good and there's good possibility 10 to 20 bagger game stock is nearby in the vicinity.

      I think it's possible we're in that 10 to 20 bagger territory right now. I'm looking for a company on the verge, a small cap on the verge of a major break out - an emerging growth phenom and I believe COIN has very good chance to be one of the next emerging growth story stocks. Doesn't the previous statement by you at least implicitly recommend the purchase of COIN? As far as Paulson goes why not talk about the excessive warrants they have and the PR blitz that has been going on until the 10Q?

    • Tel everyone how that ENT short is workin' out for ya short strokes!


    • <<> PSG... is one of the most informed longs on this board >>>

      That would mean this is no place for a intelligent debate or discussion about this company, if any of your beliefs come into question simply resort to name calling.

      I often see the question asked,, why are so many bashers on this board? Well there’s your answer.

    • Kanto, looks like you're new to the COIN MB.

      Hopefully you're asking an honest question based on a sincere desire to evaluate COIN as an investment or trade, or perhaps as a possible short candidate.

      So let me suggest you consider some recent business developments since they directly address your question about the seperation of organic from inorganic waste matter.

      Maybe you overlooked the April 22, 2008 announcement where;

      "Converted Organics and waste management firm, Russell Reid have agreed to "cooperate in the collection, processing and conversion of waste from Russell Reid's food service clients."

      Especially where it states:

      "Russell Reid is ideally suited to provide food waste material...via their food service customer base."


      "Our technology requires source seperated food waste, and Russell Reid is well positioned in the metro New York market to meet this need. The potential for deliveries to our new Keasby, New Jersey processing facility is substantial."


      "Russell Reid, established in 1943, is a full service waste management firm with seven locations throughout NY, NJ and PA."

      I think that partially addresses your question.

      Next consider the business agreement with Pacific Seafood. I won't quote from the announcement: you can read the details if you're interested.

      But let met point out that P.S. has over 30 facilities that produce a substantial amount organic waste from fish and seafood. Enough said.

      Now about the Gonazales facility: it is located in the middle of one of California's many rich Agricultural areas where there numerous large scale AG operations that create a substantial amount of food waste as a byproduct of their food production.

      And there are numerous state and federal prison facilities in California and throughout the country that produce substantial food waste.

      There are many more Russell Reids and Pacific Seafoods to consider for potential business agreements.

      We could just go on and on with the possibilities but it seems the typical pessimist lacks vision or imagination to understand the potential of a small businesses like COIN to succeed.

      Imagination and vision are two essential qualities or personality traits for successful growth investing. If you want to find the next 10 or 20 bagger, you need the ability to see what is possible rather than impossible.

      Remember the cliche, "the market climbs a wall of worry." The same can be true for individual stocks: many didn't see the potential for GOOG, HD, AAPL, POT, MOS, LNN, RIMM, SU, PBR, FSLR, DRYS, PCP, CF, RIO and numerous other enriching investment stories.

      Let me leave you with a quote legendary small cap fund manager Peter Lynch. Lynch ran the Fidelity Magellan fund and through his ability to see the potential in many small company stocks, built the fund into the largest mutual fund in the world.

      He's long since retired but in his book, "One up on Wall Street" he asks the question;

      "Do I have the personal qualities it takes to succeed?"
      Lynch goes on:

      "This is the most important question of all. It seems to me the list of qualities ought to include patience, self-reliance, common sense, a tolerance for pain, open-mindedness... a willingness to do independent research ...willingness to admit mistakes....It's also important to be able to make decisions without complete or perfect information. Things are almost never clear on Wall Street, or when they are, then it's too late to profit from them."

      • 1 Reply to hoggey1
      • hoggey1,

        Thank you for an intelligent reply. I am very skeptical about COIN's business model, as any investor/speculator should be. Too many people are in love with this stock, and that ain't healthy. Likewise, some people seem to have an intense hatred towards this stock... that's just plain weird.

        I'm just trying to understand how this company plans to make money. Something isn't right here.

        Pacific Seafood gets 50% of the profit... that's OK, but I don't see any tipping fees there.

        If "Our technology requires source seperated [sic] food waste...", why is a discount offered for separated waste?

        COIN's technology has been leased or acquired from other companies. What is COIN going to do differently from it's predecessors? Please don't say "tipping fees"; that's a joke. Green waste tipping fees are much lower than regular waste fees, and COIN is going to have to offer an incentive to recruit the waste... like they did with Pacific Seafood.

        Good luck with your investment. I however, will wait until things are little more clear. An operational Woodbridge plant would help. If it makes money, then it's an obvious buy. But I'm afraid that any earnings will be offset by the administrative costs and service on their debts.

    • let's stick to facts here folks. Otherwise, this board becomes nothing more than pumpers and bashers.

      Yes, CO is offering 20% discount to entice haulers to "tip" their trucks at Woodbridge. They don't need to keep increasing fees yearly because they are not dealing with a depreciating asset, ie the landfill space which loses value every year.

      they turn the garbage into a value added product. hence, in theory, they could accept the organic waste for free. Some organic fert. companies such as AGWS actually pay for their chicken litter waste. Hence higher gross margins. And I have yet to determine the exact model the Cali ops was running but my guess is they were not charging tipping fees.

      CO is building their model based on the same principal that has turned WMI into a cash cow. Turning trash into cash.

      But CO won't accept just any trash. for example, they won't take garbage coming from a construction site. They are contracting with haulers that pick up containers full of organic waste from food processing centers such as food markets, food producers such as a Heinz...

      They do still need to inspect it to make sure there are no contaminants before beginning the process to turn it into a high quality organic fertilizer.

      the discount is about creating a win win situation for them and the haulers. Money matters. Otherwise, what incentive would they have to change who they dump with?

    • ...although you personally do not warrant the dignity of a response, fyi coin model does not accept "contaminated" raw material.

      if you understood anything about the COIN product line/process...gee, did anyone inside COIN ever think of this before???...aka common sense, you would not be posing such lam ass BS basherette questions as the above.

      your one and only goal is to bless the mb with constant and feable short and distort tactics...(yawn)...darlin' you bore the world to tears.

      kadaa..."what is recycling?"

      crawl back in your hole...jerk.

      wannabe basherette kantowhatever day care services



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