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International Flavors & Fragrances Inc. Message Board

  • ifftanic ifftanic Jan 28, 2006 3:50 AM Flag


    Yes, Trickle Dick, not Tricky Dick (as Nixon used to be called).

    I am simply have to refute escapethefumes:

    First off, in the old days when confidentiality was sacrosanct, IFF never promoted a fragrance by saying it was a so-and-so type. The most that might have been said,INTERNALLY from FDG, was a fragrance "in the philosophy of". Firmenich abstained as well.

    When I was in a position to control the fragrance descriptions I refused to describe it as a "type".

    Two reasons:

    1. Don't let the company get a "knock off

    2. By disclosing a certain fine fragrance type, some customers cannot shut up and tell the competition that IFF submitted such and such a type....this was valuable info for the competition who would always get closer to "matching" (or tickle downing) than IFF.

    So we are talking about basic commercial strategy and if salespeople can only sell if they can tell the customer that the submission was copy of this and that fragrance, you have the wrong people.

    Either way you slice it, you don't get nearer to closing the sale.

    There are enough perfume houses who do nothing but matching the whole time...all you need is a GC-MS (approx. US$50,000), an analyst who can actually reconstitute the analysis (very few analysts are good at it), a perfumer, a salesman and off you go.

    I used to notice that the former Dragoco was always first to knock off a new ff launch. I remember that they had a "Pleasures" type in a week after the launch!

    So, escapingthefumes does not know what he is talking about.From my experience, IFF was always "lousy" at trickling down or matching. Why? Because they used to do very well on their own without having to rely on the creations of others.

    I suppose new commercial reality may have changed from way back when. And lest you don't believe it, I can tell you that I was groomed in this real creative style at both Firmenich and IFF.

    Creating for body sprays like Axe or Lynx, the fragrances tend to be along the THEMES of newer ff successes, but not copies!

    There is nothing to be gained from mimicking the competition. Just coz everybody else does, it should give IFF an advantage by NOT doing it...use the creative juices, let them flourish, have the guts to submit a "joker" every once in a while.Wouldn't that be great??

    I do hope that the new CEO understands all this and cam once again re-establish a true leading position.

    The constant trickling down rsults in parity results when consumer-tested. When is the last time someone produced a 3-sigma winner? But you see, here is the rub:

    For all his remarks about the Pursuit of Excellence is taken directly from the book "In Search of Excellence" of the 1980s although Hank Walter had the foresight before its publication.

    In Search of Excellence argues that employees should take risks, willing to make mistakes if it is backed by the company. In a dictatorial company nobody dares to take risks and the submissions are so "safe" that the industry is in a creative rut.

    Dior took a huge gamble when launching Poison. Many leading easy coast high society gals were given 4 scents. Poison fared the worst, but it evoked great passion...passion of hatred and some polarizing results. The rest is history.

    And remember this: first class people hire first class people. second class people hire third class people. This has been very prevalent in IFF of late.

    So, ESCAPETHEFUMES: wanna have a televised debate with me? The problem with your posting is that you just wrote me an insult instead of correcting me!! If you know so much, why don't you go through the issues I raised and propose something better ????? You can't, that's your problem.

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    • I guess that if this were a messageboard about Cunard or even any other company involved with any form of naval transportation that the Titanic in literal discussion would be worthwhile.

      Figuratively speaking IFFTANIC and ARISTORUSSIAN I fear are contemplating their navels - how about some real fragrance and flavor speak?

    • Talking of those bulkheads reminded me of the brief experiments in Belgium in house building at the start of the previous century. Many days were lost because of bad weather - rain, snow and so on. What to do ? Start with the roof and then keep dry while building the rest.

      Then there is the heroic trip to be the first to walk on the sun. You go at night, of course, so you don't burn up.

      IFF shares aren't looking too good either.

    • Calm down Aristo....this must be colonist and racist from ethnocentric country like US. In Korea have the experience with the base in Itaewon and we stil beleave MacArthur, but that Truman messed us up.New Russia is good neighbour now. We learn history too hu hu^^.Khang sam ni da.

    • Well, ESCAPEFUMES, there you go again. Why did you not defend yourself? I might have been wronf about the 58 knots, but the gut of your message is that the Captain of the Titanic was (you say "is"..????) in denial.

      So you should recuse yourself. Goldstein certainly did not go down with the ship....his payout is not that of a hero.

      You give the impression of a "know-it-all" and you attack others with "what a bunch of BS", while you publicize your ignorance of the facts surrounding the Titanic.

      Poor,poor. In Russia you would be known as an ignoramus of Sputnik. Too bad i can't use Russian letters here to expose of what you are.

      At least in Russia we are taught world history. We even know about "the day that lives infamy"...

      Can't stand people who are clueless about history and geography. I am sure you are Hero somewhere....pull the trigger, shoot and then aim. Pathetic!!

    • This sounds more likely.

      Now, can the Search Committee make better speed to avoid the iceberg? Remember, most of a berg is unseen and under water and the public's seen just the tip of the IFFberg.

    • The real story is that the Carpathia raced 58 miles with her engines pushed beyond her limit of 17 and 1/2 knots.

    • Few people really know this, but the Carpathia was a jetfoil; that explains the 58 knots. It was written in the Appendix of Sir Walter Lord book, but few people read that part of the book.

    • And the equivalent to the bulkheads not going all the way to the ceiling is....?

    • <<...steamed at 58 knots...>>

      Not bloody likely! A nuclear-powered carrier can't make 58 kts.

    • At no point did I suggest that IFF were any more dependent on GCMS and knock-offs than anyone else. In fact I didn't even mention the approach, so I guess there simply must be loads of guilt-stricken IFF-ers or defenders of GCMS that lack the genuine original creative juices!

      If you deny that IFF ever look at other people's creations and trickle them down, then my dear friend you are either suffering from delusions or lying - take your pick.

      I recognize the vast difference between "matching" and "trickling down". I'm sure that we don't need to prove our credibility by citing the technical, creative and cost challenges associated with the latter - or if you do, then our "televised debate" would be exceptionally boring.

      Someone like Foxy would be quick to confirm what happened in Europe when two houses suffered at the hands of the Swiss match-makers. Now that was downright nasty and demonstrated a new commercial reality by one of the leading customers....

      I poked fun at the limerick not being a limerick, forgive me that as equally I am no poet - the only poets that I know believe that it stands for "Piss off early tomorrow's Saturday".

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