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International Flavors & Fragrances Inc. Message Board

  • xtlxure xtlxure Aug 14, 2006 10:33 AM Flag

    Will IFF buy major holding In SYMRISE?

    Reportedly,EQT owners confirmed IPO for who in their right mind is going to invest in that lot?

    The Financial Times pointed out that in the 3 years ownership, EQT have had 3 CEO's ...they fail to mention the serious broad spread fall out from the other senior positions. There have also been 3 changes in the Global Fragrance leadership and 3 changes in Global Flavor leadership...not to mention numerous senior changes in other disciplines.

    By the way, when I say changes..I mean people have walked away.

    Doesn't say much for stability or continuity , does it?

    So. Mr AMEN..just a piece of advice..take a long look before you decide whether to invest.

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    • Oops - you probably aren't who I thought !
      ( I actually hope the company does very well then my pension is likely to grow rather than be frozen or whatever. That said, I won't argue with you about the mess bit.)

    • "my erstwhile colleague"(??)....(???????)..not too sure about that bit Kijker!!!

      anyway, I fear you might be right and unfortunately I might be wrong ...that 40 number is too close for comfort...I never thought that might happen given the sad state of affairs at IFF and in the industry per se....but I stand to be corrected.Let's see if IFF hits that magic number before the end of the year.

      As for AMEN, who is acting as quiet as a church mouse, running in deep waters may not be the best way to promote Fine Fragrances ...hopefully it is just a matter of time to get adjusted to a creative world instead of his past in paper...but oh, is it still as boring as hell out there.

      Could it be that AMEN is a shark in the dark!!!

      R.I.P. IFF AMEN

    • My erstwhile colleague ( ??), the proof of the pudding is in the eating. That share price is inching towards $ 40 all the time. As for AMEN - maybe he's a still water with proverbial depth . Let's wait and see. He is there and Heaven knows what he is doing but the share price is moving ...

    • IFF selling smoke without fire they say, but this really could be a case of someone making a smoke screen !!

      Mind you, has anyone out there heard that a certain 2 mtr fellow is rumoured to be wanting to keep his hand in the game at you could say , he still has his head in the clouds and a little bit short of oxygen at such dizzy heights!!

      I'm putting my money on Givaudan, not IFF, to take Symrise ...and forget all the talk about an IPO.

      ..things are beginning to stir in the M&A stakes in the F&F business right now, with all sorts of analysts snIFFing around!!!

      ..and that AMEN fellow; far too quiet for someone who is meant to be running a leader in Fragrances ..I mean where's the razzamatazz, can hear the snores from here..or does he believe in the old addage-

      "No News is Good News"..

      Unfortunately, IFF has become very, very boring

    • who will buy? - i have not heard there is a real IPO yet... This company is finaly making it happen. some core lists recentely ... even getting IFF ousted at Dial... now that is news.. this can mean big top line numbers for symrise at a time when it is critical for IPO or sale or merger. Keep watching - its getting interesting. oh yeah.. alot of Giv people leaving and coming to symrise.

    • "Maybe you might detail the synergies between F&F"

      Mostly in that you have shared body of knowledge/expertise. There may also be some room for manufacturing synergies, as well as shared reasearch staff (carrier development/engineering/sensory etc).

      On interesting possibilty would be to merge IPAR with IFF and then do a split. The fragrance would then be an integrated vehicle.

      " Kerry or Danisco "

      Kerry and Danisco both have flavor units already in house. If they want to expand, why buy SQIFF? The thing is that merger's rarely add value, since the buyer tends to overpay, *and* it's a pain to integrate the companies.

      Just think of IFF and BBA, huge value destroyed in that merger.

      "Just ask yourself why Cargill has started to invest in Flavors"

      AFAIK, it's to have some expertise in house to enhance sales of other mainline products (soypro, meats, fine agricultural ingredients etc).

      Cargill's main business is and has always been being a commodity producer. Recently they have leveraged that into also making fine agricultural ingredients (sterols/isolates), which are also bulk products and made from stuff that Cargill deals in already.

      Taking a serious flavor company inhouse moves the company into the fine chemicals business. The profit margins are better, but the volume is much smaller, often much smaller. There is also the issue of the enourmous continuing R&D expense.

      Also, Cargill just bought Degussa�s food texture and flavoring units:

      Again, I don't see why either ADM or Cargill would want to buy SQIFF, and become top 5 players in F&F. It's too big for what they need.

      I can see why having just the flavor's might be useful for ADM, (but I would imagine that they already have much of the needed application expertise in house). Buying SXT seems to make more sense, in that it is at least cheaper.

      IMHO IFF is safe for now.

    • Maybe you might detail the synergies between F&F ..personallyI would not expect any loss for a company like Cargill or ADM or Kerry or Danisco if they were to buy any one of the 3 companies mentioned and only buy the Flavour fact they would all be mad if they were to hold on to the Fragrance since it would not fit .

      Just ask yourself why Cargill has started to invest in Flavors etc ..and then you will have the answer as to why ADM (if the rumour is correct) might be interested in getting their hands on the Flavor parts of any one of the 3 mentioned.

      ..having said all that , I think it is only a rumour and not more than that ..

    • "So why not ADM investing in any one of the above mentioned 3 F&F companies?

      ...answer would or should be"

      I would be very surprised if ADM invested in any of them because the CEO has said that the future of ADM is bioenergy.

      "Having said that, if ADM would be dumb enough to pay EQT's price and do a deal at the same time with either Quest or IFF to shed the Fragrance business then I could possibly believe the rumours of secret meetings in Amsterdam or Hilversum that we have been told about."

      Way too much M&A related chaos for that to be a good idea. Then again it is such a stupid idea, that perhaps they will all go for it. Merger's DO NOT ADD VALUE. Givudan is the only one smiling in all this.

      Also, if you split fragance from flavor, how much synergy do you lose?

    • interesting reply.......but not easy to know who is first for chopping.
      My flavor friends tell me that Symrise kicked their butt this year in Europe and Asia and that even Quest beat them also in Europe .So maybe perception about our german friends is a little out of date.
      Also remember that Quest flavor is always talking big about great improvement year on year.Any idiot could do that if you first of all destroyed your European flavor business like Quest did when they SAPped out 3 or 4 years ago.Do you not remember when customers were begging our flavor colleagues to come in and match the Quest flavors at almost any cost.Our shopping friends at Albert Heijn[or maybe it was after the beer[s] at Demmers] tell us that this was the first year in four that they made a profit in Europe flavor business..........and now thay are cutting people again. Born geniuses these ICI scriptwriters and they have the flavor industry shivering in their boots!
      Pity my company makes their 'recovery' so easy.
      Let's see what happens next and I expect some could be surprised.
      By the way it would be great to see some of the fragrance houses to come together before our margins get hammered more so your idea on ADM spinning us off would be great news.
      Must go and say my afternoon prayers

    • Hot rumours that ADM are about to buy Quest or Symrise or IFF or a combination of two of them.Many 'secret' meetings these days around Schipol/Hilversum and Naarden??? DD being done?They are not going to let Cargills outpace them. Speculation that they then spin off Fragrance ...........roll on and let's get away from this mess with our wonderful leadership.Amen RIP.
      Must get some shopping done later at Albert Heijn and pick up the latest gossip from the very demoralised Naarden guys.More cutbacks there.When will it stop

      • 1 Reply to dimethylsulphide
      • "Hot rumours that ADM are about to buy Quest or Symrise or IFF or a combination of two of them."

        Why? ADM is doing just fine with ethanol, no need to complicate matters with fine chemicals business. Assuming a 10% Buyout premium, ADM will be spending alot of cash/equity on this ($4.6 billion or so)

        "that they then spin off Fragrance"

        That's silly, since the two sort of work together. It reduces the value of each franchise if you split them.

        "They are not going to let Cargills outpace them."

        ADM's management is focused on energy n stuff, buying IFF is not the way to beat Cargill.

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