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American Capital Agency Corp. Message Board

  • herexhear herexhear Aug 30, 2013 12:29 AM Flag

    Our times part II

    The USA is not the country you grew up in, it is an 80  20 country now.

    80 percent struggle, 20 percent live in an ideal scenario.

    The USA has changed from what it was to something more like the traditional ancient overpopulated civilizations.

    Go to anytown in Ohio.  The country club neighborhoods have buyers snapping up beautiful homes of industrialist ancestors at comfortably affordable prices and record low interest rates, while gourmet shops and upscale stores do brisk business.

    The neighborhoods of guys that made tires and cars and cash registers are obliterated..

    People are cheap and do not matter unless they can make it out of the 80 percent.

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    • You left out the other half of the story. Which is that the reasons those auto companies in Ohio moved to other states with lower labor rates is because the unions would not compromise as the Japanese continued to take market share. Had they been willing to make concessions the situation would be significantly different today. I understand why they did this. It's because this is what the unions did for half a century to achieve wage gains and it worked in the past. However they did not come to accept that they were no longer competing against just the big 3 American auto companies any more until so much market share was lost that they no longer had jobs.

      They did it to themselves and it was not the fault of those people who have gone other routes to achieve success. These people didn't create the circumstances of the unemployed union worker but I suspect you would want them to pay somehow because it suits you. Not because it is right but because you can. And you might do this for one reason and one reason only. You want their money. Not because you deserve to have it but because you want what they have earned.

      Have you noticed that Japanese auto companies do not open auto plants in Ohio? It’s because they considered the union mindset employee there to be damaged goods.

      When I was in Ohio going to college at OSU I had a neighbor that used to work for an auto plant. And he used to proudly boast about how they would jam a crow bar in the assembly line so they could take time off to smoke a joint as they repaired it. Now I suspect that this does not happen anymore as today’s worker probably understands that they need to do a good job to compete in order to save their own job but the problems that exist today are due to the aftermath of what these inconsiderate and selfish 1970s workers were doing, and probably the parents of today’s workers. So they might know who to blame if they were to try and see the truth but they won’t.

      • 3 Replies to raybans2
      • While I did offer Ohio as one example of economic devestation for which you can say its their fault while you spend your workday posting on messageboards about the work ethic of Ohio auto workers, areas such as NC, GA and FL, which have the kind of low paid, hard working nonunion people you approve of, have also hit with deindustrialization.

        Ive noticed people with your viewpoint signature spend a good amount of time authoritatively dictating the wages of people who you do not approve of at a time of income stagnation for these groups.

        While you spend your work day approving of lowered wages and job loss on messageboards, news is coming out that American physicians and CEOs are setting their own pay rates in a vacuum entirely removed from market forces.

        This perfectly illustrates what some people are starting to see: ideal conditions for 20 percent who have easy jobs with the luxury of websurfing during work, and economic devastation for 80 percent.

      • Independent verification will reveal this to be an untrue statement: "Have you noticed that Japanese auto companies do not open auto plants in Ohio"

        After which the author will qualify it to make it true (not since xx number of years ago, etc)

      • Many of those laid off auto workers had to start their own production shops in order to get work and to many of these shops the auto companies outsource their work. And the people who work at these shops have severe competition from the thousands of other shops like them. So as you can imagine they have lower benefits and lower pay than before when they worked directly for the company as a union worker, except the owner of the shop of course.

        The same thing has happened at my company. In all the parts of the company that unions dominated the work the company has been outsourcing those functions one at a time. In some cases these employees are given an opportunity to keep their jobs but they have to quit our company and go to work for the outsourced company at much lower pay and lower benefits. However had the unions been less antagonistic the outsourcing never would have started and those outsourced workers would be making more than they are today. It always boils down to greed. You reach a point where what you ask for can no longer be afforded in comparison to alternative solutions and it is the stubbornness of the union that keeps them from making compromise before it is too late. When the point is reached that the expense of switching to the alternative solution overshadowed by the yearly savings then the outsourcing process begins. The leadership in unions need to keep an eye on this so that they do not fall prey to this process but they never so because usually they are just a bunch of loud mouth blowhards from the rank and file and have little experience analyzing micro economic conditions. And besides, they like telling their union members what they want to hear, not the truth which might get them yelled at. So they go down the path of self destruction. It happens every time. And it is basically because these union workers don't even realize what they are doing to themselves because everyone is afraid to tell them the truth.

    • Actually this country has been an 80-20 country for most of its history. For a brief period after WWII that changed. Unions grew more powerful and gave the average worker a chance. But with unionization at a 60 year low things have gone back to where they were before the new deal.

      • 2 Replies to walrathcrai
      • Walra Wrote "Actually this country has been an 80-20 country for most of its history. For a brief period after WWII that changed. Unions grew more powerful and gave the average worker a chance. But with unionization at a 60 year low things have gone back to where they were before the new deal."

        I agree. It is america circa 1933-1968 That I refer to as an 20-80 country.

        It was a noteworthy historical achievement.

        Dont forget though that the American System views of Henry Clay and Abraham Lincoln did make American wages and standards of living the envy of the world efore the New Deal.

      • most economies are 80-20. Except for communism where they are 90-10.
        I grew up in a working class home, I was told "no, you can't have this" "we can't afford that"
        I had to pay for my own clothes as a teen, my own car my own insurance.I had to pay rent to live
        home. But even then when I was a waiter I dreamed of owning a restaurant, when I was busboy I dreamed of owning a bar. Later on when I was dating a hairdresser we dreamed of owning a salon...SO I went to school and I got the job and I took the harder road most times. now I am the 1%
        PS, My friend who became a plumber does quite well too, another who went to the navy and then to culinary school owns 2 restaurants and has written cookbooks.
        Everyone wants a hand out nowadays, that's the problem. We have become a nation of dependent whiners. MacDonalds was a place for teens to work, now people consider it a career. Go take a computer class, dream a little. Foreigners show up here with a few rupees and wind up owning businesses, THIS IS THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY.

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