I hear you, ox. However, I would feel more comfortable if the reasons for all this movement of jobs had something to do with as noble a concept as "eating our own weak companies." It's reminiscent of Darwinism. But that suggests some LONG RANGE plan being in place for the betterment of the country. IMO, the current movement in jobs is predicated primarily on SHORT TERM greed - again on the part of management AND stockholders. And I don't buy the application of the anaolgy of the blacksmith and the automobile to today's environment. We're not talking about a handful of blacksmiths, we're talking about millions of American workers. And I wonder how good it would have been for the country if Henry Ford had set up his factory in, say, France.
But you know what would make me feel MOST COMFORTABLE? Glad you asked! Moving TOP MANAGEMENT JOBS OFFSHORE!! That's what! Now while that's a somewhat facetious comment, think about it for a minute. Why not? Oh, yeah - those are the guys making the decisions - and they ain't giving up THEIR jobs, are they.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not in favor of protectionism. But I'm also not in favor of greed at the expense of the American worker, either. IT's shortsighted and it's morally repugnant. And I'm ESPECIALLY NOT IN FAVOR of foreign moochers who come to this country to suck out some bucks and then have the balls to disparage the American worker. And I don't give a damn from whence they came. And, freakinganimal, get your head screwed on right. You'd gain a lot more credibility if you said something about vijay's comment AS WELL AS snoopy's. Methinks you protest too much (about only one side). You haven't answered the questin: Do YOU think American workers are lazy? (And keep in mind that vijay did NOT refer to "SOME American workers.")
I don't think we disagree as much as you seem to, but fine. It's really not important whether we agree.
I do think the pendulum does swing both ways, and it probably will swing back. Lord knows the Enrons and World Coms make an impact.
I must say, though...I'm sincerely flattered by the compliment. Thank you.
I don't know how to debate any of this with you anymore. Every time you're challenged you change the subject.
We've gone from your statement that it wouldn't make a difference if all the jobs at Met were outsourced (I assume including sales) to 18th century economic theory from Adam Smith in the "Wealth of Nations" to everyone should go back to having a heard of cows, sheep and goats in their yard along with a flock of chickens and a vegetable garden of their own so they can be self-supporting.
Nice try, but I ain't buuying.
And while I agree that unions caused their own demise through sheer stupidity, there was a time when unions provided a very much needed counter balance to the unbridled power of the corporation bosses. When unions gained the upper hand, they began the process of pricing their products to the point of being noncompetitve, and that led to the demise of their companies (steel being one prime example).
I don't know when it will happen again, if ever, but I believe there will have to come a time when companies will not wield the big stick they carry now.
You've always been one of the best, most intelligent posters on this board, so all I can say is good luck and lets move on to another topic.
"Not all Americans can be business owners. Some have to patronize these businesses."
Let me remind you that there was a time, about a hundred years ago, when few people worked for others and almost everyone owned their own business. It's back before the industrial revolution, when people built their homes (with the help of others) and planted and harvested crops, which they sold and ate themselves. That was a time before "jobs" existed. There was plenty of work to do, it just wasn't a job.
An article on this a few years ago in Fortune magazine titled "The end of the job", talked about how we've forgotten that jobs didn't always exist. In fact, many psychologists/psychiatrists believed it was physically impossible for a person to work in a "job" for 8-10 hours a day. Claimed they would go insane (maybe they were more right than we realize :-)). The article said we seem to be moving back to the model of independent contractors instead of employees, as oursourcing means we sell our product (our services) to several companies as needed and provide our own benefits and pay our own expenses.
So, blight, I disagree with your premise. I think virtually all Americans CAN be business owners..and patrons, too. I'm not advocating that. I understand there are many people who have a protection mentality. They fear change and just want to get to a place where nothing will ever change so they can relax. Good examples of this are union members and teachers with tenure. Many just want to be able to stop worrying about the future. That's understandable. I don't think it's realistic long term, but it's worked for many short term...even long term individually if they can make it to retirement.
I think the underlying issue in all of these discussions is the fear of change. Dan Sullivan of the Strategic Coach wrote that there are four main groups of people. Those that fear change that I've already mentioned, the vast majority of people who fear change, but when it comes do quite well because of it, a minority who are victims of change (the people the safety net of society is there for), and a tiny minority of maybe 1-2% of people who love change, see it as opportunity, embrace it and create society. They're called entrepeneurs.
If we read the posts with an eye towards how people feel about change, they become very different. IMO, the biggest problem with fearing change is that it is an untenable position. Change will come like it or not. That's why I advocate trying to effect the change instead of obstruct it.
In fairness, and to not be hypocritical, sure there are changes I don't like and don't want, and even resist. Some of that's human nature. But I do think I'm more realistic that most about change not being the end of life as we know it, even when I don't agree with it.
I recommended you post, Snoopy!
Because its the funniest thing I read all day:
"One last commeent, oxnard. "In any event, the freedom to come and not become a citizen is what this country is about..."
So I guess you have no problem with al Qaeda members coming here and taking flying lessons?"
You've outdone yourself this time, moron.