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Packaged Ice, Inc. (ICY) Message Board

  • sallybabes sallybabes Apr 6, 1999 2:55 AM Flag

    BRRRRRRRR !!!!!

    ICED has been giving me the cold shoulder ever since I foolishly bought this junk at $8.56. Will a hot summer help push the price up? If so, let me get my investment back and I'm gone !!!!

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    • Neither your (1) or (2) results, which I agree
      are likely and existing outcomes, have a positive
      impact on shareholder value. Those who think that the
      ice factory is the greatest thing since sliced bread
      do not understand the nuances of the industry.

    • I agree with most of what you say. I too believe
      the plan is flawed. It seems to me the plan is to
      place the Ice Factory in places they can not compete.
      They don't seem to place them in markets where PI owns
      a traditional ice plant. They try to place them in
      areas where as you call them "independents" operate.
      You then have a situation where the independent has
      excess capacity and will then start to seek out other
      markets himself probally expanding into PI areas where
      they have not agressively marketed the Ice Factory
      because they still service that market from their
      traditional ice plant. It seems obvious that 1)a price war
      evolves or 2)PI has to sell the Ice Factory in their own
      market thereby hurting themselves as much as their
      competition.

    • To my specific knowledge only 2...I am sure that
      there are others that do. Here I differentiate
      Marketing from Sales. However, as I am sure you know,
      without a solid marketing strategy, it could be an error
      to call something a marketing department when it is
      nothing more than glorified sales. Why the question?

    • How many ice companies,to your knowledge,have a marketing department?

    • The simple answer is what good is revenue without
      EBITDA? Granted, it is more complex than that. At the
      core of what has been wrong with much of the ice
      industry for far too long is too much of a focus on market
      share and not enough of a focus on the bottom line.
      Fortunately, there are some exceptions in certain markets to
      this rule and they provide models for where real value
      can be created in this industry. The real question,
      as opposed to an answer, should be why would PI be
      seeking market share (with traditional ice plant accounts
      as opposed to the use of the ice factory) using
      price cutting as a means rather than focusing on a
      different strategy that allows them to maximize the value
      of their very valuable assets for which they have
      paid a tidy sum? To the degree that PI is taking
      accounts from the smaller mom & pops they are not doing it
      with the Ice Factory in most cases as the smaller ice
      companies do not even have the capacity to service the
      larger grocery chains where the Ice Factory's are
      placed. Accounts taken by the Ice Factory are taken, for
      the most part, from the larger regional independent
      ice manufacturers which have long since grown beyond
      being a mom & pop in this industry.

      Back to
      your question: A price war may be the only route to
      go, however, clearly recognize that to the degree a
      price war is initiated is to the degree that all ice
      producers will lose. Whoever is the ultimate "winner" in a
      given market will still pay the price of the time
      involved to regain a pricing level that is rational.
      Again, the real point here is that there is a better way
      to run the business. Market share at the expense of
      other strategies that can produce greater value hurt
      the shareholders of the company that pursues such a
      strategy when other alternatives are possible.


      Again, this is somewhat of a complex situation unless
      you have a clear view from several perspectives: (1)
      A clear understanding of how shareholder value is
      created and can be maximized in general and (2) An
      indepth understanding of the ice industry and the
      somewhat unique dynamics and characteristics therein (3)
      An understanding of what the true assets of the
      industry are and (4) A clear perspective of the components
      of a strategy that would provide the greatest
      potential for the maximization of the value of these
      assets. And, that is all I will say on that subject.

    • If you owned an ice company and were losing
      accounts to Packaged Ice, why wouldn't you go after their
      accounts and start a price war. These mom and pop
      operations make ice cheaper than anyone else, their
      equipment has been paid for 10 times over. It seems they
      could squeeze Packaged Ice margins. Thats what I would
      do before I let them put me out of business.Your
      opinion?

    • I do not currently own any ice companies and have
      not for some time. If I did, I would not stoop to any
      type of manipulative gimmick. As I have stated
      repeatedly I am offering my opinion both as a former owner
      of multiple ice companies and as a financier as to
      the value creation aspects of this particular
      company. People with talent have no need to resort to
      financial manipulation.

    • to tear apart the q, before I said more. I see
      price targets have been lowered by a couple 3 houses to
      7 -$8, the acquisitiopns are very small but done at
      attractive multiples for a change. But, I'm not convinced
      either way at this point.

    • The mom & pops will always try to goldbag this
      product, large chains will not invest the capital for
      machines like these, hopefully the local sanitarians will
      put enough pressure on them to allow the ice man to
      do his job. The name of the game is service and the
      toughest customer is the one who bags his own until he
      runs out!. I read an article that some major chains
      were leaning towards more DSD and vendor promotional
      involvement in the stores. DSD meaning Direct Store Drop and
      leave the marketing to the vendors.Thus reducing labor
      costs in the store and allowing the vendor to properly
      market his product. I could not imagine the potential
      problems associated with a machine of this type being
      monitored by an employee whose main objective is to watch
      the pumps and ID the minors wanting to buy
      cigarettes.

    • Maybe you were just taking a breather from your
      posts. I was only hoping that you were not just bashing
      this stock to avoid a run, if you were monitarily
      driven to keep the share price down, it would mean that
      if you were a seller of one of the new aquisitions
      it would be in your favor. I am not discrediting
      you, merely trying to keep things in perspective. What
      do you think of the most recent aquisitions and the
      new report.

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