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MIPS Technologies Inc. Message Board

  • sgimipsprst sgimipsprst Feb 12, 2005 10:33 AM Flag

    RE CELL

    here is a link to an article contianing letters suggesting CELL will have a rough time to put it mildly

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/11/cell_cpu_letters/

    The below is a post I put on the SGI board showing how I am rooting for the Itaium type changes while believing that the CELL type changes are too MUCH too late and will not work ....i.e. Sony will be a bigger and bigger royalty payer to MIPS at levels that are indeed high - and levels not at all currently priced into the PPS - WOW

    """Ouch
    I have a headache

    As a holder of MIPS I have been watching the arrival of god in the form of cell - IBM Sony et al

    What I read two years ago a year ago and last week or so - made me think it was over engineered and was arriving too late - and that it simply will not work

    there is an excellent compilation of articles at UK register - arguing the same end result

    That is good for my MIPS holdings

    At the same time - some of the reasons presented for why CELL will not succeed touch on some of the issues of ITANIUM - as in essence too new and too different

    While clearly Itanium moved a foot for every mile that CELL proposes to move ... it is interesting that I agree CELL will not take over - yet I believe that Itanium will find a nice future in HPC ...

    It just might be the difference of INTEL pushing and pushing and not trying to move as far distant as

    IBM and Sony are trying to move and they are the ones - as noted - who had betamax and the Power PC debacle with Apple

    Meanwhile - headache - but I trust it will sort out ALL in my favor

    Itanium works
    CELL is too much too little and all software that is not yet writte - called death

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    • <<I said it once, ill say it again...Fuckwit>>

      I think you mean Feckwit, don't you, Feckwit?

      <<I don't even think IBM have released the Workstation yet to even carry out Software development for this chip yet alone anything else, and you talk about no third party support tools for MIPS>>

      You must be twins, because you are far too stupid to be just one person.

      First of all, I believe there are indeed development workstations at some games developers already.

      Second, everyone else here (apart, obviously, from the usual suspects) knows perfectly well that I was referring to the general lack of third party support for MIPS, which is so dire that MIPS actually have to pay third parties, otherwise there would be precisely zero such support.

      <<This just goes to show how stupid DR Z. is re :: swap MIPS in for Cell>>

      Ahem. That was Apathycat's bizarre suggestion, not mine. I agree, it is borderline insane, but then he has been seeking to defend Chicago lately. I can only assume he has been ill in some way, much like yourself, and is more to be pitied than scorned.

      Dr Z.

    • <<What makes you think third-party tools would be an issue?>>

      It is symptomatic of the relative decline of the MIPS architecture(s).

      Third party developers shun MIPS, so MIPS has to pay them to develop products that support MIPS.

      That shows MIPS' lack of penetration.

      Dr Z.

    • <<Huh? You do know how expensive the cell was to develop, right?>>

      That supports my point. Sony are not going to write off the sunk costs of Cell development and transfer their attentions to an architecture that is going nowhere and lacks proper third-party support. To start afresh on a new architecture using MIPS would be prohibitively expensive, and it is just not going to happen.

      <<You are showing your ignorance of the gaming market Z.>>

      You show yours constantly by trying to defend the indefensible and contemptible. And it's Dr Z to you.

      <<Besides, you yourself agreed PowerPC was not the main IP in the Cell.>>

      That is not quite what I said. Since Cell appears to form one distinct line of technology within the overall Power architecture (and the 8x PS3 processor is really just one instance), PowerPC seems to be much more fundamental to the design than the typical core as part of an ASIC.

      <<If it had been developed around a MIPS core, how much less powerful would it have been?>>

      Plenty, but that's not the point. Sony do not want to invest in an architecture whose owners cannot be bothered to invest in it.

      Dr Z.

    • """A colossal advantage for IBM over MIPS in the ENTIRE (emphasis added) embedded arena.""""

      You post colossal nonsense like this and yet you profess to be a techie and indeed expect people to take what you post seriously?

      mips replaces ppc in a sony game and IBM rules the world and MIPS is down for the count
      (the implication of your comment to its logical conclusion)

      please - give us ALL a break from your hyperbolic repetitive predictions of the death of MIPS

    • This just goes to show how stupid DR Z. is
      re :: swap MIPS in for Cell

      <<2. An unattractively risky and expensive development project, with no third-party tools support.>>

      I don't even think IBM have released the Workstation yet to even carry out Software development for this chip yet alone anything else, and you talk about no third party support tools for MIPS

      I said it once, ill say it again...Fuckwit

    • "2. An unattractively risky and expensive development project, with no third-party tools support."

      Huh? You do know how expensive the cell was to develop, right?

      What makes you think third-party tools would be an issue?


      "Dream on. When you post this sort of drivel, your posts have no more merit than those of Chicago."

      You are showing your ignorance of the gaming market Z.

      I am a bit of a gamer, and I can tell you what sells systems is games. I can also tell you (from reading many interviews from software developers) that memory and some special effect (from the graphics card) were they issues developers had with PS2. PS3's CPU is going to be, what, theoretically 10~20?? times faster? Is memory going to go up that much? If not, how are they going to tap the potential of the processor? Again, I am not a tech person, but I am pretty sure the CPU can't calculate more than it is given to calculate.

      Besides, you yourself agreed PowerPC was not the main IP in the Cell. If it had been developed around a MIPS core, how much less powerful would it have been?

      IBM was not needed for the PowerPC. IBM clearly did 'other' things for the Cell, which I am sure MIPS could not have.

    • <<If you take the cell, and switch the powerPC out for a MIPS chip, what would you get?>>

      1. Killed in the market by Nintendo and Microsoft.

      2. An unattractively risky and expensive development project, with no third-party tools support.

      3. A colossal advantage for IBM over MIPS in the entire embedded arena.

      <<An amazingly overpowered system that is unlikely to ever be overtaxed given the systems memory limitations. (just one tech challenged posters opinion)>>

      Dream on. When you post this sort of drivel, your posts have no more merit than those of Chicago.

      Dr Z.

    • apathy you noted
      ""If the cell did turn out to be impractical, a MIPS IC could be used to put out a totally kick ars game machine, but Sony is not going to let that happen. It would be a publicity nightmare.""

      If indeed a dual or whatever 64 bit MIPS core could be used ...... I doubt publicity would be an issue to stop SONY ....

      How many out each million owners and users of PS2 do you think can tell you what company makes the core chip? how many care?

      1-2% would be my guess

      How the PS3 "plays" and not the ingredients that make the PR and word of mouth stories and good or bad publicity

      If for some reason, CELL did not "fit" well "inside" PS3, and a MIPS based core provided a better game experience for a similar or lower cost - - - IMO SONY would decide to use the MIPS based avenue in a nanosecond

      all IMO -

      again - I think with IBM SONY et all working on this for four years (?) and with PS3 always the numero uno target for early CELL introduction - that CELL will do fine inside the PS3 ...

      yet I think the market has seen CELL and has not been blown away ...

      IN part this may be because of all the time it took to come to market..

      and
      as time went bye and bye

      2005 Evolution may well have caught up with 2002 revolution

    • After hearing the details were some not too impressed

      exactly the point I am stetching to suggest

    • "Apathy,

      I think it begs the question: what does the next generation x-box architecture look like? Is it multi-cored?"

      I did some looking and could not find an answer. (just a quick look)

      My guess is, yes, absolutely. Probably not just dual core either. I don't see how MSFT will be able to compete (on paper - AKA the ooh ah factor) otherwise.

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