From a loss of .12 to a loss of .08; and yet no upgrades... VVUS earnings are expected to be a flat $.23 loss this Q. Yet VVUS gets upgrades... Hmmmmm...
1)You state "earnings = profits" but this is wrong.
Earnings do equal profits. Have you ever paid an expense with negative earnings, without borrowing? And, before you jump down my throat, the expense is following the reporting period and you have no other source to pay with.
2)You state "income must be booked in the quarter it is received" but you are wrong.
Yes, I am wrong about GAAP. I did forget about that. I get caught up in reading all Arena's SEC filings that sometimes I get caught up in them as I did this time. BTW, I have read all of Arena's 10-Q's, 10-K's and proxy statements going back to when they first became a public company.
3)You state companies never report negative earnings as improving and in this you are wrong too.
I never said that and that's not how you said it either.
4)You accused me of misleading people because you, apparently, cannot read but you were wrong about that too.
I can read and what you wrote is very misleading. "ARNA to have 33% higher earnings this Q" implies profitability.
Besides my error about GAAP, you have done nothing but resort to name calling, consistently poking jabs at me and mislead readers with an inaproppriate headline.
You obviously have not found a corporate release that phrases a decrease in loss as an increase in earnings.
I had been in the field for approximately 20 years and have never read a press release, 10-Q, 10-K, Annual Report or Proxy Statement that phrased it like you have. And, I have probably come across a few thousand of those combined. That is why I asked from you something specifically from a company and not something written from the internet.
My point is that when I see a misleading headline I will speak out about it. And, when I came upon yours, is was so misleading, that caused me to act as I saw fit.
I do own up to mistakes and have always done so. Can't say that about 95 to 99% of the other posters.
I'm done with the name calling game as that gets you nowhere but heated discource.
Over the years, it is quite difficult to have an honest debate, discussion or what have you. All discussions are one-sided in which all agree, pro/con. If someone presents another point of view, they are immediately labeled a basher, i.e. like you have done to me, without any "bashing" taking place. What did I actually do to be labeled as such? All I do is speak the truth, present facts, man enough to own up to errors and answer questions with all sincerity. In return all I get is grief and a few "thanks goalie."
I haven't posted much lately because I was waiting for lorcaserin's outcome. I don't care, I'm still going to call it that. And, all ARNA has done since approval has dropped the better of 35% when it was supposed to go to $20 and higher. Don't get me wrong, well you obviously have, but I do think ARNA's best days are now officially ahead of them.
I am currently on the sidelines and have been long in the past (mainly trading). The stock broke down on July 18th and shows no immediate sign of recovery just yet. News will have to change that. If it dips to around $6.70, with all things being status quo, I might just be long ARNA again.
GAAP or "generally accepted accounting principles" are exactly as you say and yes management should book the FDA milestone payment in Q2... but companies do strange things occasionally and do not always comply with GAAP for a variety of reasons. I would not stake my life on ARNA reporting the FDA milestone payment in Q2 - I would however, (and have) stake 12k shares on it.
Lets hope they get it right.
You state "earnings = profits" but this is wrong. You state "income must be booked in the quarter it is received" but you are wrong. You state companies never report negative earnings as improving and in this you are wrong too. You accused me of misleading people because you, apparently, cannot read but you were wrong about that too. Basically, everything you have attempted to fault me on has been an error on your part.
Forgive me for asking... but what is your point anyway? are you long ARNA or short or sitting on the sidelines?
You have yet to find one single company press release that states that earnings have increased from (negative whatever) to (less negative whatever).
I specifically stated no internet-based summary.
And, once again, you have to poke another jab at me. You just can't help yourself, can you? Your user ID is quite apropos.
Earnings are not profits. Here is a definition for you - my apologies, but it is in English as you have yet to inform us which language you actually speak: earnings
Revenues minus cost of sales, operating expenses, and taxes, over a given period of time. Earnings are the reason corporations exist, and are often the single most important determinant of a stock's price. Earnings are important to investors because they give an indication of the company's expected future dividends and its potential for growth and capital appreciation. That does not necessarily mean that low or negative earnings always indicate a bad stock; for example, many young companies report negative earnings as they attempt to grow quickly enough to capture a new market, at which point they'll be even more profitable than they otherwise might have been. also called income.
Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/1618/earnings.html#ixzz22tSBCeHO
What do you think earnings are? They are profits. Not losses. You are the one putting a spin on it. You're trying to convince us that and decrease in a loss is earnings. How?
And, it's very unusual for earnings to be a positive number. That is the ONLY thing that earnings can be. Otherwise, it's not earnings.
And, there you go again. Calling me a name. A basher. What am I "bashing?" Stating a fact that says that a loss going from 16 cents to 8 cents and calling it a loss, is bashing? That the estimate from 60 days ago went from a loss of 12 cents down to an estimated loss of 8 cents is a decrease in loss and NOT earnings, (which is completely wrong), I'm a basher?
So, according to you, anyone that wants to be on the on the other end of a conversation with you is a basher. Wow!
So to you "earnings" as a concept must always be a positive number to be considered "earnings?" Very unusual. If you want a civil discourse, stop trying to twist concepts and words out of all context to make them fit your basher narrative.
"If your earnings are such that you lose .18 one quarter, but improve the next quarter so that you lose only .08, yes, your earnings have increased."
"You could not be more wrong. You could try... but you would not be successful." -Friends (Ross & Russ)
No, your losses have decreased. That is not the same as your earnings have increased. An example of earnings have increased is as follows. You earned .18 in one quarter, and now you earned .24 in the next. The key word here is earned. Not loss.
You obviously do not understand how corporations report earnings.
If you can find just one earnings report that states it like you have put it, then I will gladly apologize to you. Again, only one company's earnings report under your scenario. No third party write-up. Especially no internet-based summary.
If you can not, then I would like for you to apologize to me.
BTW, is it possible for you to have a civilized discussion without name calling and belittleing or is it just an innate quality that you have and can not help yourself?
From a loss of .12 to a loss of .08; and yet no upgrades..
That number will be very well beaten on Thurs.
No analyst figured in milestone payments last Q or a secondary. Both are income / revenue. I am not sure how the tax code sees secondaries but they have to be considered income.