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Arena Pharmaceuticals, Inc. Message Board

  • sp500chartdotcom sp500chartdotcom Dec 6, 2013 4:03 PM Flag

    Strange trading

    Lose 4% right off the bat then stay there all freaking day long.

    That is not what should happen when buyers and sellers meet each other in a legitimate market. There should be a bit more play in the action if you ask me.

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    • yeah, I dumped a chunk and will buy back. just as an experiment I will buy at key Fibonacci levels based on the last pop up from 4.05 to 6.70
      the road t0 50 seems to have some potholes!

      Sentiment: Hold

    • Yes Sp500, I agree with you.... to me the last two days have shown the following sequence.

      1) Borrow half a million phantom shares before trading begins.
      2) Unload the half million shares at sell market orders in the first half hour.
      3) Collect the half million shares during the day.
      Then borrow the same half million shares and repeat Steps 1) thru 3) on the next day

      The legal thieves call this the step function, and there we are all watching the price fluctuate at their mercy. All this HFT BS should be banned from the market, unless those guys want to ruin their own bread and butter and lead all the retail investors out of the market. At that point they can start stealing money from each other instead of the retail.

      • 3 Replies to tiger_josef
      • Josef at ARNA board-- thanks for describing "the step function" so nicely. QUESTION 1: How do people go about detecting borrowing of shares BEFORE trading begins? QUESTION 2: Is it possible that the ARNA borrowables start high in number during the pre-market, but borrowing is so fast that there are zero shares by market open? Could that happen repeatedly, morning after morning, ZERO borrowables at the open, after lots of borrowing earlier?

        Agree that the dumped shares would be phantom shares, not truly owned, either sold naked or borrowed.

        NEWBIES. People should be aware of how phantoms happen. One cause? Fails-to-deliver. That is, erring broker-dealers (who could not find shares to borrow) selling anyway, while naked, to take advantage of a price run-up they feel will not last. If the take-down is fast (3-11 days???), they can cover their nakedness before the exchanges might be required to report them to the SEC. However, this "trick" may be going away. The SEC had worked its way through a backlog of fail reports since the recession, then, this summer, started going after exchanges for poor policing, saying the IOUs for shares given to unknowing buyers at settlement dates were illegal even though reporting was not always required.

        Another cause? margin accounts A fast price run-up tempt "momentum-buyers" to borrow money from their broker-dealers,in order to to buy. Shares held in margin accounts by longs then are
        (a) loanable by the broker to shorting clients (OUCH) and
        (b) subject to margin calls once the shorts dump the shares brorrowed from new longs (DOUBLE OUCH).

        It's dangerous to buy shares in a margin account if not a daytrader. The broker may ask permission to loan shares, but (READ THE FINE PRINT) may reserve the right to borrow your shares WITHOUT PERMISSION, true even if all borrowed money and borrowed shares have been returned).

        JB, from Vivus board 2013/12/06

      • Yes, a step function.. it crossed my mind today too.... this "legal" algo bs really is garbage.. if allowed to continue it may very well finish off a large portion of what's left of retail participation in the market... total senseless greed... what's even worse is I bailed with all my trading shares@ $6.55 on thursday, because I correctly guessed this might happen-- the algo hft take down ,& didn't even flinch having been so conditioned as to expect this "legal" cr_p. I made some cash this time but the fun,skill & profit of picking winning or losing businesses is diminished . Hft is cheating & unethical ............imo

        Sentiment: Buy

      • Tiger in ten years time they'll be no retail investors in the market due to the reasons mentioned I've posted about this before, they have fkdued us over to many times and as you rightfully stated they'll be stealing from each other, so good luck to them with that.

        Sentiment: Strong Buy

    • bhuston77 Dec 6, 2013 4:05 PM Flag

      sp...we did see days with a similar rise recently from the bottom on relatively light volume.

    • Accumulation for the past two days after the stops are collected.

4.46-0.110(-2.41%)Apr 21 4:00 PMEDT