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  • debreasystems debreasystems Mar 12, 2011 11:02 AM Flag

    and...then there's the evil public unions

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    • here is (one of?) the boycott letter(s) directed at Gov Walker's corporate contributors

      as you can see there are multiple police and firefighter signatories

      whether or not these constitute a numerical majority of the police and fire worker populations i have no idea

      i can't see how the State could get away from disestablishing some unions but not others, particularly those unions which actually make a positive contribution to society at large unlike the leftist dominated public school system


    • there SHOULD be no exceptions - the right to strike should be barred universally to any public employee organization

      there has been an affinity between police unions and Republicans generally typically being a functon of the 'law and order' mentality of the two

      however, given that...

      it is my recollection (though i can't find the proof off hand) that the retalitory economic boycott of all corporations that donated money to Walker's campaign was in fact signed by representatives of SOME firefighter and police unions - whether or not they are the premiere union representatives i don't know

      secondly the most famous public union strike breakage in American history that i recall (before PATCO) was the Republican Governor of Massachusetts Calvin Coolidge who broke the Boston Police Strike of 1919

    • DB, for the sake of discussion here, check this out. One of many recent articles talking about just the one union in California that has indeed had a measurable negative impact on things.


      That one points to Schwarzenegger, not Gray Davis, but it was Davis, in a spiteful FU to the citizens who were recalling him, that gave this union a 50% raise, the most generous working conditions in the country and the most generous rules for "sick" and "overtime" pay.

      I know lots of folks who work in Corrections -- some guards, some bureaucrats. Many are embarrassed by the reality of what the state has given them, but others just defend it as "our right, since our job is sooooo dangerous".

      It's a game that new guards are taught!! Use your sick leave every fiscal year, for example; coordinate with a buddy, then you call in sick but work a double shift the next day -- you get paid for the sick day, the regular shift and 8 hours of overtime....3.5 days pay for working two shifts. There are thousands of stories out there about guards with nothing but a high school education and a couple of months of their academy, making well over $100K net, annually, with the overtime making up more than half of the annual take-home.

      They have become arrogant in their greed, abusive in their power. They are the single strongest political entity in California now, spending massive amounts to literally buy the backing of legislators, politicians and "others of influence". They even have an annual "getting to know you information sharing" session ......in Hawaii!!!!.....where they pick up the flights, hotels, entertainment and other expenses of legislators and their families -- and attendance is higher than you might expect,

      You don't have to look far to find that CA prison guards are grossly overpaid by comparison (oh, sorry -- Gray Davis also designated them as "law enforcement", granting them even more retirement benefits by making them equivalent to the California Highway Patrol, putting them in the "public safety" category of the retirement system (3% per year of service, eligible at 50 instead of the 2-2.5% at 55 for everybody else).

      They make about double what average state prison guards make. Even bigger difference between them and the growing civilian correctional industry, where market forces are still in play.

      There was a time where unions could be justified in areas of obvious abuse. However, I'm in the camp that believes that public sector works were never abused to the point of needing collective bargaining agreements. They work for us!! We determine conditions and pay and benefits and if those aren't attractive to you, go elsewhere. Public sector unions are illogical, in my humble opinion.

      • 2 Replies to heystan42
      • Great! Just let the THUGS, GANGS AND CRACK/DOPE pushers control the streets and influence the up and coming generations!

        The policy was badly designed and the politicians are to blame for leaving loopholes in the laws. No one wants to cut or monitor programs such as these and as a result the Union took advantage of the loophole, if they didn't themselves craft this into the policy and laws. Most politicians will let it slide as long as they go back to their neighborhoods and "brag" about controlling crime in their districts. When times are good no one looks over details, and what we are seeing today is a cumulative effect of bad policies without oversight! Politicians are too busy fund raising with lobbyists and "fixing" their own retirement/pensions. Public service is just not what it it sounds like in theory.


      • morning stan
        we in fact are in agreement on the greater portion of your thoughts here. i know a few hacks from san quentin, more that were on the wrong side of that situation, but...another story.

        it appears to me that EVERYBODY is being driven into a dark hole.
        i see the unions as a necessary evil. i don't know how the common man can compete w/ a system
        that is basically slave driven. we are all now regarded as "socialist" and want nothing more than a handout. my disposition is so few of us make an actual living wage, i'm in favor of anybody who does. instead those on the bottom pull those above down to their level of lack of income.
        we should be working the other direction.

        20% of every dollar in
        america goes to the top 1%. never has income disparity been greater, NEVER! i say we go UPHILL and take from those at the top.
        i was making 500 per week bdlg houses in new mexico in 71~. guys make the same now?

    • public sector unions through their political activities and proclivities demonstrate a political bias toward the left

      the very nature of the public sector is such that collective bargaining itself is nonsensical

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