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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

  • also_a_Darwinist also_a_Darwinist Feb 27, 2012 6:52 PM Flag

    arbt" : Question IRA and UBTI

    I just got my K1 today and am totally confused. It is I'm sure academic as I only have 400 shares in my ROTH and will be under the $1,000 threshold .

    Now for the question. Is there a line number on the 1065 that relates to the UBTI or is this a calculated figure. Looking at the numbers I can see the advantage of having this in a retail account.

    The only numbers I see that relate to URBI are on the suplemental schedule K-1 - 20Y1,2 and maybe 3.

    It appears that part III line 1 of the 1065 is derived (only because the numbers sort of add up) from supplemental schedule 20Y1 minus 20Y2 and that would result in a negative URBI which would result in a passive loss on schedule E if I was holding this in a retail account.

    Does this make sense or am I confused enough to be considered a potential Sec of the Department of the Treasury?

    Did I get these forms to record (Substantial?)negative UBTI by my broker?

    Thanks for any answer but I will understand being ignored.

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    • Not sure if I follow your question, but the negative UBTI for ETP is only for non-profits. If you read the fold-out instructions, it says that individuals should disregard the number.

      • 1 Reply to rlp2451
      • rlp-

        UBTI is for non-profits and trusts. An IRA is a trust. You are correct that individuals should disregard the number.

        You need to pay UBTI (unlikely for most MLPs) if it is over $1000. Several brokers suggest filing a 990T if you have a loss of at least $500 so you could offset future positive UBTI numbers in Box 20V. I file my own 990T - but it is supposed to be filed by the custodian (your broker).

        You can look at Investor Village where a large compliation of data will show you UBTI from 2010. It was posted in early May I think. Also important that UBTI while UBTI is generally consistent by company from year to year there can be large variances between holders and there have been surprises. The study can also show you several MLPs that have thrown off consistently positive UBTI and thus are not a good fit for retirement accounts.

        ARB

    • Most people refer to the K-1 (Form 1065) as simply the K-1. Calling it Form 1065 creates confusion. You never see the 1065 for the MLP.

    • UBTI is box 20 code V.

 
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