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Enterprise Products Partners L.P. Message Board

  • alphaswartz alphaswartz Dec 30, 2011 1:52 PM Flag

    State tax liabilities on K-1

    I would like to purchase EPD stock, but I need to know if the last (2010) K-1 issued had a STATE liability? I understand how to prepare a federal tax return from a K-1. I want to know if anyone who is getting K-1 reports from EPD has STATE tax reporting requirements. I used to own KMP LP and it had no state tax reporting on its K-1. This was not the case with Cedar Fair (FUN) which gave me tax liabilities in MO, OH, CA etc. on their K-1. I disposed of the PTP because the tax reporting was so complicated.

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    • Arbtrdr -

      Thank you very much for your detailed answer. I will plan on calling and employing some of these strategies after the annual earnings releases when I get some free time.

      I saw your post a few messages up as well. I am not a member of the IV board, but I do read it daily and am part of the UBTI effort. As it stands now, I occasionally get to communicate with some of the posters when they visit free sites such as this board. You will be missed if you leave.

    • Thank you. IV board is worth the few $$ for no SPAM and the ability to private message.

      Thanks for your reply. I'm not consulting this year for Intuit. Agree they probably do not know there is no limit. Also went back over my notes and I did indeed mean 30. Thanks for the correction.

    • The previous consensus was that there was a limit of 30...maybe you mean 30 when you say 20?

      Last year was the first year I had more than 30 K-1s and so I was wondering what would happen. As I say, it input my 32 with no problems and I checked the forms and all the K-1s had been included.

      So I really don't know what to believe. I called Intuit quite a few times last year (before I got all the K-1s) because I was worried about a limit. I found it hard to get anyone who understood what I was talking about. Then someone did relay a message from a developer that they would not change the limit. So it was pretty surprising when I subsequently had no problems entering 32. Some other poster on some board also mentioned he had entered 36 with no problem. I came to the conclusion that nobody (including Intuit themselves) has any idea about any limit.

      This year I'll have 37 or 38 (depending on whether ENP-VNR is one K-1 or two), so we'll see what happens. Basically I'm at the point of not believing anything I hear about any K-1 limit. I will probably keep adding MLPs to my portfolio and increasing my number of K-1s each year, so we'll see if I ever hit a hard limit.

      Intuit should pay me a commission for stress testing their K-1 code.

      As for IV, I am not a member. I read the MLP board and a couple of others (the BRY board is great for general energy discussion) but cannot post there.

    • There are some excellent IR people, but I generally speak to the coorporate level people. The older guys like dan Duncan would speak to anyone until the last 5 or 6 years when they satarted getting lots of calls.

      I probably get through for three reasons - I have been calling (or showing up in person) for about 15 years, I always make sure to write out my questions in advance and make sure to ask questions that are likely to give me some insight and not the sort the IR person can answer, I ask for the secretary of whoever I want to speak with. They have always called me back, last I have a very unusual first name.

      If I do have a company that does not respond - and promptly - I send out an email to my investor group of about 200 and ask all of them to call. If a company gets a bunch of calls from the same investor group they definately take notice. Some have actually met with me and asked what they needed to do to improve IR.

      Bottom line is call, do not email. Ask specific questions that are short and concise. If you do not get a reply from IR call the corporate office and say you have a question. When they begin to refer you to IR you need to reply you already called then on X day at X time and they did not reply and would you please put me through to X to ask the question directly.

      As an aside, I have had some great discussions with MWE. In the past the CEO of ETP and Dan Duncan always took the time to try to educate me. I know it is different today compared to 1995, but you still as a unitholder deserve communications.

      ARB

    • liza -

      The code says there is a limit of 20 entries. I asked my supervisor 2 years ago to change the code so there was no limit. There was no meaningful reason to limit the number of entries. Was told they were thinking about it. Had no idea they actually made the change.

      Also am getting very tired of Yahoo SPAM and stupid posts. Will probably move back to IV and staty there. Are you a member of IV?

      ARB

    • There seem to be a lot of false rumors about the number of K-1s that TT can handle.

      Arb, you mentioned 20 on a post on IV.

      Last year I had 32 K-1s and had absolutely no problem entering them (using TT deluxe). I had been wondering because I had heard about a limit of 30 K-1s but it blew through the 31st with no change in behavior.

      This year I expect to get 38 K-1s so we will see if there is a limit between 33-38 but I doubt it.

      Arb, can you find out what is the real limit.

    • "...I disposed of the PTP because the tax reporting was so complicated."

      Even Turbo Tax seems to be bamboozled with these MLP's. But the entire tax code is so hopelessly screwed up anyway, what's a little more confusion? Until a flat tax is implemented (unlikely) we will live with an unfair tax system, with HALF the country paying Butkas, mainly the Obama entitlement crowd.

      • 1 Reply to etq2020
      • Both of you are incorrect.

        There have been hundreds of posts about state tax liabilities from K-1s. Everyone concluded that filing in even PA with a $50 threshold for say $100 would create a return with a liability of about $3! Do you seriously think PA is going to go looking for you. Would cost them more.

        Also remember the data that goes to the states and/or does not go. Also states cannot net positive and negative numbers as you need to for filing.

        First and most important is that the majority of state numbers on the K-1s are negative. The absolute technically correct thing is to manually add the numbers from all of your K-1s and then go looking to see if you owe any taxes.

        Second, the numbers from EPD have historically been negative. I have never reached a threshhold for filing in any state after over 17 years of holding.

        Last, other than holders of STON which posts significant income from PA, I have never found a reference to any state looking to collect state tax. I looked into OK as I have income some years ago from an E&P company that was over the $1000 threshhold. I found that I would technically owe OK about $30 and that I would get a credit of $30 from my home state.

        The tax reporting is not difficult. Turbotax does it perfectly. The fairness of the system is a debate that needs to be done elsewhere.

 
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