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Yongye International, AŞ Message Board

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  • seasaw6499 seasaw6499 Oct 20, 2010 8:01 PM Flag

    re: seesaw and his ilk

    Provide me one exmaple where I was dismissive of facts or thoughtful rationale without providing very good reason.
    I like coming to the truth, to correct conclusions. However, if someone can prove me wrong, I would be very happy to admit it.
    If I am wrong, then there is no better response for me than someone to provide facts and evidence and sound reasoning to show it. In fact, that was what happened to me with ONP. I was long the stock;, saw facts, evidence and reasoning that I was wrong; did extensive further due diligence; and quickly admitted my error.
    My error was in accepting the company's representations without being skeptical.
    Consequently, I improved my due diligence to include extensively testing and researching the company's representations to make sure they were telling the truth. Unfortunately, companies like YONG are not fairing well until extensive scrutiny. I say unfortunately because I would like nothing more for the asserted numbers and prospects for companies like YONG to be true, because, if they were, they were be great bargains. That is why I was initially long on many of these companies. However, I have come to the conclusion they are pump and dump scams. You may get like and profit tremendously by riding the pump and selling before the dump. However, that is not something that interests me. I don't what to profit of these scams that way and, even if i did, I don't believe it is a good method.

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    • You keep referring to ONP as if YONG falls is in the same class or category??? The only similarity is they are both Chinese companes. ONP has always been surrounded by controversy, even before they were a publically traded company. YONG has never had any reports or negative stories circulated about them. In fact, that is why they hired KPMG to audit their financials and go back and did 2 (I think) restatements of their financials to ensure the numbers were accurate and that they met US GAAP standards as well as the Sarbanes-Oxley standards. That was when the the stock took a big hit because they went back and accounted for warrants that had been issued but were not properly stated in the financials. After YONG did this you started to see many other Chinese stocks follow suit.

      Bottom line, the only way to prove you wrong is with time. Time will prove that YONG is playing by the rules and not trying to mislead investors with phony numbers. Debating with you over the numbers is a battle no one can win because you have it set in your mind that the company is a fraud and no one is going to change your mind, not on this board. You keep saying you would be the first to admit you are wrong if someone can present facts that prove it. Well my facts are this, YONG has never been accused of misleading investors or falsifying numbers. Until they are, which could happen with any company not just Chinese companies, I will continue to be a shareholder. GL

      • 2 Replies to johwjohn
      • You are wrong. I have evaluated YONG solely on its merits. I have not concluded anything about YONG based on ONP and have never said that. If you claim otherwise, please cite me, don't provide me with your misinterpretations of what I have said.
        This is the problem, you guys debate me, don't know what you are talking about, and complain when I point it out. For example, they didn't hire KPMG, they hired KPMG Huazhen, which is a global network of professional firms. HOwever, each firm is a distinct and separate entity and describes itself as such, for which KPMG denies any liability.
        You are also back to this thing of rellying on others, not on facts and evidence about the company, when you talk about YONG not having any reports or negative storeis circulated about them. While that is not actually true, it probably is to you because I travel in different circles. But that makes no difference anyway - it is the facts and evidence about the company that it important.
        No one can win with me because I am right. If they had the facts and evidence to present to show me wrong, they would, including the numbers.
        You demonstrate the absolutely poorest reasoning I can imagine, saying that YONG is not a fraud because it has never been accused of miselading investors or falsifying numbers. At some point in virtually every fraud, that has been the case, so you set up a standard that you would make you a victim of virtually every fraud that has been perpetrated.
        What you can't and don't do is provide me with facts and evidence about the company and its business.

      • Thanks Joh
        I personally have nothing to say as all of you guys covered almost all could be discussed
        BUT
        What i see here Seasaw is a very very negative person , as we say it in my country: the one bitten by a snake is always afraid of colored rope....
        and he will never change at least not this soon , also he never ever talks about any stocks that he is positive on ....