Thank you for your response, and i must say that i do respect your view. I understand you dont believe in a personal God, but you do believe there is a Creator. That is your choice and i do respect that. Einstein appears to have believed that same.
I choose to believe there is a Creator and this Being is my/our personal God. My life experiences have reinforced my belief.
I hold NO hatred toward anyone believing any different and I wish them the absolute best.
Yes its true that belief in a personal God has led to many wars throughout history. Christians, Muslims and others have killed because of their personal agendas while claiming to do so in Gods name.
This fact doesnt move me as I believe those who pervert Gods name to further their personal agendas will be dealt with accordingly. This belief is again, my choice.
Maybe everyone praying to their individual God is fine whether Muslim, Christian, Hindu and others. I just know what works for me and has all my life.
This discussion started because I mentioned praying for our planet. My experiences have led me to believe that prayer works! Everyone has their own personal beliefs and i respect their choice in the matter.
�Funny how no one has addressed the issue I stated. I'll repeat it:
"Would you agree that everywhere you look in this world, you see systems? Mathematical systems! Given this, isn�t it safe to assume that systems can only be created?! If this is true, then one must only conclude that is a CREATOR!�
This topic�s far too controversial for a stock MB, but I feel the need to be clear here.
I guess I forget the myths have conveniently assigned to our hate mongering �personal gods,� (�Allah� and/or �Yahwee� and his CEO �Jesus Christ�) not only the duty of protecting us and making us victorious against all who hate us � but also the heavy lifting of creation.
I wasn�t suggesting the universe is creator-less. Anyone studying almost any branch of the natural sciences (as some others pointed out) will come away with the feeling that they�ve just been given a peek into something extraordinary, something grand beyond description, something at once exquisitely beautiful and at the same time very, very odd and mysterious (the �systems� you mention).
Another thing they come away with is the sense that the ancient stories about wandering desert nomads, stone tablets from burning mountains, humble births in mangers, a competing deity with vivid dreams, folks flying up into the air and rising from the dead, is probably unrelated to the creation of something as complex as thermodynamic law and the Milky Way. Examined in their historical/political context, they reveal themselves to be mere analogy, more like an oral history of our earliest attempts to make sense out of conscious existence. The sustained �literal� belief in these ancient tales that pervades our �intelligent� culture personally disturbs me deeply (obviously, or I wouldn�t have brought it up here.)
My point is that, for the sake of real �peace on earth, we need to consider giving up our warring, vengeful gods (who are becoming increasingly anachronistic) and replace them with a new myth within which to embrace our spiritual nature � one that will recognize that we are all members of one tribe (�humanity�). a doctrine of true tolerance, one that will serve to bind us together - and not create the very divisiveness that destroys us, one that will end the hatred, end the senseless killing � killing encouraged and celebrated by an ancient, mythical �god.�
Ps�Science is silent on the existence or identity of a creator. I personally think the answer is in our ability to simply ask the question. But I don�t believe in the concept of a �personal� god; I think we are a part of something much �gander� than we can comprehend. I feel honored to have been invited.
killing in the name of the lord, there are 1000's more:
This is why I don't like religious discussions. Everyone inserts their own interpretations. I put up the Einstein quote verbatim and people read into it that part that supported their own opinion.
From my original post:
<<Einstein had this interesting thing to say:
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.">>
This quote, by the way, was also in the Stephen J Gould page that onedanelectroman posted.
As you can see from my post, I made no claims other than that I found the quote interesting and observed that Einstein also saw systems.
In reading much of what Einstein himself said, I conclude that Einstein saw divinity, but not in a traditionally religious sense. Rather, he was awed by the elegance of creation and envisioned some form of enlightenment at the core of that creation. He did not believe that that enlightenment at the center of creation had anything to do with human right and wrong and particularly rejected the view of a god that doles out reward and punishment.
Still, his was just one very smart person's view.
did you even look at the link, stating unequivically he does NOT believe in a personal god? sheesh!!! he coined the phrase "god does not play dice etc" as a way to put in laymans terms how much he considered the uncertainty principle to be wrong. he thought evrything had to be able to be nailed down. now you are guilty of perpetrating a myth about a man who cannot defend himsef.btw, the speed of light IS the speed limit in this universe. and i do play a danelectro.
Actually he did in fact - His belief that "God does not roll dice with the universe" was considered to be responsible for his inability to solve problems in quantum mechanics that made much of relativity incorrect - the main overall thesis was correct, many specifics were not. He was never much good at math but was very bright and keenly creative.
LOL!!! Yessss i was thinking the same thing. STP is on cruise control! Steady rocking on! God willing, they'll continue for a long time to come! ;)
Yes i was thinking the same thing regarding Einstien. He too believed in God!