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ITT Educational Services Inc. Message Board

  • thedeathrace thedeathrace Jan 31, 2013 5:22 PM Flag

    Students with bad experiences???? Where are they?

    Have read tons of posts on this board going back a time as part of my due dilligence. I see many comments about "bad student experiences". The "I know a guy who went to ESI and he said it was a waste of money" type of post. Well, where are all these disgruntled students. ESI has 60,000 student. Since 2001, who knows exactly how many graduates....400,000....500,000? More? So out of this mass of people, where are all the complaints? I went to a prominent web site for logging consumer complaints, particularly against education companies and I found something like a total of 20 complaints against ESI over a period of like 8 years!!!!!!! 20 complaints. That was all.

    Well, how many should be complaining as a regular sample for any company? Clearly, no company wants any complaints, but that is simply a dream world. Given the complexities of education (students that don't put in the work, students that graduate and still have a hard time getting the right job for whatever reason, students that drop out for because they can't hack the workload), one would think that there could be a high complaint rate. A 1% rate of complaint would be 600 students each year on a 60,000 student body population. Over the course of ten years, that would be 6,000 complaints. And that is for a tiny 1% complaint rate. A 10% complaint rate would result in 6,000 complaints a year, and probably over 60,000 complaints over the past ten years. Where are all these people? And the major consumer complaint board on the internet has a whopping 20 complaints registered over the past 8 years on ESI!

    Let's face it. Sure there are unsatisfied students. There were many things that I thought ridiculous at my schools (not ESI), but I got past them and I knew that I was only going to get out of it what I put in - a solid effort. But where are all these people that the short sellers on this board post about. Yeah, I know one guy here or another guy there. So what. Big deal. It is like saying I bought a bad loaf of bread, so therefore everyone must be dissatisfied with their bread too. It is all a bunch of hogwash baloney. The press is all over it because it is something that they (nor the posters on this board) do not have to substantiate and no one can prove one way or the other. All a person has to say is "I knew a guy..." and everyone takes it as gospel. And every bozo can always find someone to say "Oh, I didn't like that program. It was too expensive" or whatever. Little do we know that the person saying it was on meth half the time and took have his student loan money to buy drugs. Bottom line, people on this chat board posting stuff about complaints against ESI that are completely removed from the realities of the education market, or from the realities of any consumer product company.

    What a joke. But god bless. If it weren't for Salem Witch Hunts like this, I would never got to buy stocks at prices that allow me to make significant returns.

    Sentiment: Strong Buy

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    • Just look at the default rate...that is a bad experience....Look at the completion rate. Gee, why pay $500 an hour when you can atttend a community college for around 100 bucks? ITT is 15 bucks (down from 135) for many reasons. the HELP committee will finish ITT off Kev&co off this year.

      Sentiment: Strong Sell

      • 1 Reply to dell4131
      • dell41, sorry. i don't buy it. the default rate is a function of the overall unemployment rate, not the education. No one complained about default rates before 2008. They didn't complain because the job market was decent. And the complaint levels post 2008 are not significant by any measure I have seen. If you know some exact figures regarding the number of complaints, please share them here. The job market stinks for the past several years (no fault of the education companies) and everyone points the finger at the education companies like they are to blame, particularly the politicians who have failed to enact any decent job creation policies. What a joke. Because someone defaults has no bearing on whether an education company's services deserve a "complaint" from that person. People do not file complaints because they dropped out at their own choosing, didn't find work after graduation (because of weak hiring from companies), and so on. The fact that there are so few complaints when the defaults are high (only for the recent 2008-2011 graduates) is evidence that the "bad experience" story you lay out is just baloney. Regarding going to community colleges, you have your head screwed on backwards as I see it. Community colleges have nothing to do with the issue of "complaints", so why are you even mentioning it here. Community Colleges are also taxpayer subsidized. So you are completely mistaken by thinking that a community college education is "less expensive" than those for another type of educational institution. This is just more distortion and disinformation regarding how education works. If you want an education, someone has to pay the bill. At community colleges the student gets a partial free ride on the unsuspecting taxpayer. Taxpayers are getting wise to this and politicians are cutting back on this ridiculous freebie by dramatically raising the tuition costs at the community colleges and cutting back drastically on the size and scope of the community colleges. You comment is simply one of distortion. To this point, anyone could have taken the time to read the attached article regarding the community college system in California, the most populated state in the country.


        Nearly a half million students have been shut out of California community colleges since 2008 - a 17 percent drop in enrollment - as budget cuts have forced schools to limit the number of courses they can offer, a new survey of the campuses shows.
        "We've lost more students than are enrolled at all California State University campuses combined," said Chancellor Jack Scott, who presides over the state's 112 community colleges.
        The survey this month of California's colleges by the chancellor's office showed that, since 2008, the number of courses has declined by 24 percent statewide as the system was drained of $809 million, 12 percent of its funding.
        The result has been a dramatic drop in the number of students the system can afford to teach, the survey suggests. Four years ago, the colleges served 2.9 million students. Today, it's closer to 2.4 million, a loss of 485,000 students, Scott said.

        Read more:

        Sentiment: Strong Buy

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