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BASIN WATER INC Message Board

  • shiftsuper175607 shiftsuper175607 Jun 10, 2008 8:47 AM Flag

    who is worth reading on this board?

    I am doing DD on Basin.
    Which posters here are knowledgeable?

    Not enough star rated posts to find.

    Are they having growth pains or are they poorly managed?

    Thanks for any replies.

    Shift

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    • suedannam,

      I don't think I am playing with semantics. I think that BWTR is playing with semantics, which is odd. Usually an acquiror doesn't need to rewrite history and restate prior announcements, but they did. Obviously MPT won the business, and obviously MPT was acquired by BWTR seven months later, so why couldn't they leave it at that?

      Again, I think the thesis of water shortage is a good one, and I think AMN, EME, PLL and TTEK are some ways to play it -- not pure plays, however.

      Can you think of other companies that will benefit from the California water crisis?

      I don't think BWTR is a way to play it:

      http://www.citronresearch.com/index.php/2008/04/07/basin-water-down-the-drain-with-self-dealing-insider-dumping-corporate-defection-and-mysterious-customers/

    • "Of course BWTR didn't acquire MPT until September 14, 2007. So suddenly Paso San Robles awarded the contract to Basin Water? I don't think so. "

      Oh stop. Now you are just playing with semantics. Most companies who acquire contracts though acquisition of another company do this. Saying " we have this contract in our backlog, but we didn't really own the company that obtained the contract at the time" is pretty uncommon.

      Acquisition accounting rules, are about accounting. Not about who owns what contract. Basin is perfectly within bounds by saying they were awarded the contract.

      Basin might be scrambling for revenue - but California declared a state of emergency today.

      "Fresno, CA (KFSN) -- The governor declared a state of emergency for nine California Counties, including Fresno, Tulare, Kings, Madera and Merced.
      The governors declaration means water that would otherwise be unused, can be pumped into the state system. Growers in western Fresno County will benefit the most.

      The entire state is in a drought, but the governor is providing some relief to Central Valley growers.
      Governor: "We have to move water around as quickly as possible. Because the Federal Government has just cut off more water to the farmers, and I think that's very dangerous because we rely so heavily on agriculture. Under the emergency declaration growers will receive assistance in drilling wells. "

      http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=6202232

      Drilling more wells, means more need for contamination removal.

    • Hi suedannam,

      The Basin Water-MPT web site you reference

      http://www.basinwater-mpt.com/News_1.html

      is so bizarre. They have a web page devoted to "announcements", yet oddly, NONE of the announcements has a date on it. NONE. Did you wish to imply that all of the site's announcements for new customers and new contracts for Basin Water? That would be false, and deceptive.

      Here's one example:
      "The City of Paso Robles, CA has awarded Basin Water-MPT a contract for removing arsenic from two 1,000 GPM potable groundwater wells. Both installations use MPT’s HyperFlux advanced filtration technology. The city has also awarded Basin Water-MPT a long term service and maintenance contract to ensure proper system operation and performance. The contract includes Basin Water-MPT’s off-site resin regeneration services, which eliminates the city’s environmental liability."

      In fact, the contract was awarded to D-kal Engineering on 2/6/07, and D-kal subcontracted the arsenic treatment plant to MPT. Of course BWTR didn't acquire MPT until September 14, 2007. So suddenly Paso San Robles awarded the contract to Basin Water? I don't think so.

      By purchase accounting rules, of course, BWTR can not add MPT's historic results to its own, however, it does add its backlog, and business as of the acquisition date. Still, even with the MPT acquisition and its revenue and backlog additions, revenue has fallen for each of the last three consecutive quarters. Backlog fell from 12/06 to 12/07 -- sadly, they only report backlog on an annual basis (not a good sign imo).

      Now, with the new CEO they are making a mad scramble for revenue, hoping that they can somehow get to survival mode. I am skeptical. Yes, I see new customer/contract announcements that are literally all over the map, and utilizing all kinds of different equipment for different remediation projects as a reflection of weakness: this company, even if it were conducting legitimate business and sales to legitimate customers, and collecting the revenue it recognizes -- areas which we do not agree on -- is simply too small and spread too thin over markets, products, and geography.

      I think this one is a stinker.

    • "Yet BWTR's last customer announcement was for a new customer to treat mining water in Ontario, Canada. I interpret that as a sign that they are desperate to generate any revenue anywhere. "

      Really - that is what you are going with? Because they announced a contract in Canada 15 days after they annouced one in California?

      Yes - that can be the only answer. That is why they are getting contracts in China, and Texas.

      Only a short would construe a widening their customer base as a bad thing.

      http://www.basinwater-mpt.com/News_1.html

      http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/basin-water-inc-reports-higher,389401.shtml

    • suedunnam, what is a Citron guy? Who are my buddies? What did I promise for this stock?

      That a negative story on BWTR is old does not discredit it. Look at David Einhorn and Allied. Or Lehman for that matter.

      No question, BWTR is announcing contracts. However, there is no evidence available at present that indicates new contracts will be profitable. However, there is abundant evidence, in BWTR's own financial reports, that contracts entered previously were unprofitable. Further, there is evidence to suggest that BWTR's legitimate customers for initial contracts don't contract for more services and/or terminate their contracts prior to expiration. Conversely, as BWTR's 10-k shows, the large recent customers appear to be shams.

      You indicate that the price of water has risen 100% (in California?), and suggest that BWTR's future is bright because the economics of their business is now better as a result of the higher water price. Yet BWTR's last customer announcement was for a new customer to treat mining water in Ontario, Canada. I interpret that as a sign that they are desperate to generate any revenue anywhere.

      Perhaps you have a revenue and profit projection for Q2 or 2008 that supports your thesis?

    • Ha ha ha ha.

      I figured you were a Citron guy. Haven't you noticed all your buddies have abandoned this stock? You guys promised to bring this stock to a buck. And the only reason you guys got it to 4 was because longs abandoneds this stock, and you guys had your way with it. You won't have that luxury from now on. Circumstances are extremely different than when that piece came out in the winter. Just plug in California water into an RSS feed.

      That piece was 3 quarters old when Citron covered it. Most of the people are not even at the company anymore.

      http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2008_March_26/ai_n24948167

      http://www.thebizpress.com/news/stories/BP_News_Local_D_bo0521_water.133a8ea.html

      Water has gone up 100% per acre foot just in the last few months. Just FYI. Where Basin was unprofitable in the past - they now seem much more cost effective.

      Will other companies get contracts. Sure - but Basin already has a history with CAL water. The water industry in pretty inbred, and choose to work with companies they have an existing relationship with.

    • Rule #1: don't take at face value anything presented on a message board. Post are anonymous, and there's lots of misinformation.

      Rule #2: do your own work, assuming you know how.

      BWTR, IMO, is a cash vaporizing scam. Look at the qtrly reports, and see how the cash goes away.

      • 1 Reply to Eggplant101
      • "BWTR, IMO, is a cash vaporizing scam."

        I'm gonna grab a bag of pop corn, because this is going to get interesting.

        California declairs a water emergency. There are tons of well heads that just need to certain impurities removed to make them operational. Billions of farm dollars are on the line, as well as all new development.

        With pitiful few alternatives - who do you think water agencies are going to look at? And how long before the speculators start noticing this stock?

        When water was cheap.. no need to look at companies like BWTR. Now.. water is going to get very expensive.

        The RSS feeds are lit up on the water issue.

        I'd be nervous if I were you.

    • Threeflagrider seems to know and says things about bwtr

 
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