Lets talk a bit about Jenin...
As far as I know, and I know, around 50 Palestinians died during 8 days of fierce battles in the Jenin "refugee camp" (it's a city by now, if you didn't notice). 50. Not 5,000, not 500, 50. And were they civilians? how do you define civilians? is a person with civilian clothes holding a rifle and pointing it at you during a time of war a civilian? is someone who allows terrorists to take over his home with 0 resistance and has pictures of "holy martyrs" on his bedroom wall a civilian? And lets say they were civilians. They were given countless warning to surrender. Countless. I have 2 friends who fought in the toughest battles: 1 in Nablus (a paratrooper) and 1 in Jenin (a tank commander). They both said that people were told to surrender, in Arabic, through loud speakers mounted on jeeps patrolling the area for DAYS. We had over 20 soldiers dead in those two battles as well!
50 is like 2 suicide attacks against Israel, with one gigantic difference: we had NO intention of causing deaths among civilians and they had all the deliberate intention in the world to do exactly that. If we hit a civilian - it's a dire mistake or no other alternative situation. When they do that - it's deliberately. We have an ultra leftist bull
The problem with all the liberal idiots around the world is that they refuse to understand the difference between Israeli military actions and the terrorist attacks. They are not freedom fighters. They could have received all the freedom in the world on a silver platter from PM Barak had they accepted his sincere offer. Heck, 90% of the Palestinian population TODAY lives in the "A" territories - under full control of arch-terrorist arafat for 9 years now. What did he do for the sake of their freedom and well being? 0. He took advantage of us and built a gigantic empire of terror in our back yard from day 1 after the Oslo agreements. We were recently informed here that there was a conversation between Arafat and the President of Indonesia (the country with the largest muslim population in the world). The former president of Indonesia asked Arafat after the camp david talks, 1993 a very simple question:
"why did you refuse Barak's offer?"
Arafat had a very simple answer to that: "Don't worry, in 10 years they'll all be in the Mediterranean sea. We have time and patience".
Also, the world must understand that these people look you in the face and LIE without blinking. Without 1 muscle moving in their faces.
Our intelligence forces said that they were moving extra bodies from other grave yards (dead people from natural deaths) into the "mass burial" sites in Jenin to magnify the numbers. Can you believe this? They have no respect for life, no respect for the dead, be them Israelis or their own. The world must understand that when Israel reports there are no LIES. Sometimes we wanna get something out of it, yes, we have interests. but we do not LIE. They do. They look you in the eye, lie, and don't think twice.
There was nothing wrong with what happened in Jenin except for one thing:
TOO FEW supporters of terror died.
>> It's hard to believe that there aren't a majority of Isrealis who are disappointed that the military component of current operations isn't better bundled with coherent long term planning and diplomacy.
It's hard to believe that there aren't a majority of Americans who are disappointed that the military component of the current operations against Bin-Laden isn't better bundeled with coherent long term planning and diplomacy.
>>> Also, how do you feel about the Isreali cabinet agreeing to allow U.S. and British forces into Ramallah?
How do you feel about the US congress agreeing to allow Russian and Chinese forces into Kabul?
>>> I'll ask you again, DSY....when do you think the Isrealis will allow UN inspectors in to Jenin? It's a simple question.
Probably in a few days from now. And that will be a dire mistake on our part. A tremendous mistake.
You are pathetically stupid. The guy explained it to you in complete detail and you continue to blather like a child.
Read a book. Read a history. Read some articles. You simply don't know what you are talking about.
I'm not against the military. And I don't give the palestinian voices any special weight or inherent truth. All news media needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Should go without saying.
It's all propoganda, on some level. Comparing Arafat with Hitler, even on a theoretical level, is not very useful. But sure, there must be a military response to such conflicts. But it shouldn't be at the expense of humiliating the entire Palestinian population, IMO. It's hard to believe that there aren't a majority of Isrealis who are disappointed that the military component of current operations isn't better bundled with coherent long term planning and diplomacy.
Sure, Bin laden, Hussein, Arafat, etc. have their motives, as do the 'friendly' regimes throughout the ME. Personally, I question the motives of all players in the conflict, including the U.S. and Isreal. Noone is blameless.
This isn't WWIII, yet.
I'll ask you again, DSY....when do you think the Isrealis will allow UN inspectors in to Jenin? It's a simple question.
Also, how do you feel about the Isreali cabinet agreeing to allow U.S. and British forces into Ramallah?
You say that there is nothing wrong with what happened (is happening) in Jenin. Aside from your word, it sure would be nice to get some unbiased other words out of the area. Any idea when the Isrealis will allow the UN into the Jenin? From an outside observation, one might wonder if the Isrealis were trying to hide, or at the very least delay, something.
I was hopeful to read today that apparently the Isreali cabinet and Arafat have agreed to a U.S./Brit. plan to end the occupation/confinement in Ramallah. Also hopeful about the negotiations over the Church of Nativity.
Unbiased? The UN?!
I guess you missed a few courses in that Poli. Sci. degree of yours. Oh...wait a sec, they don't teach such things in Poli. Sci. they teach you that the UN is god.
Israel has absolutely nothing to hide. It's only people who have decided on the verdict before the trial has ever started, that we fear. The UN is comprised of such people. People who allow the kidnapping of 3 Israeli soldiers by the Hizbollah and then start a massive cover up campaign so that Koffy Annan can receive his nobel peace prize after all.
People who put Syria, no. 3 in the world in terms of active support of terror, in the UN's security cabinet with rights to vote on matters concerning fighting terror.
The UN is one big sick joke.
How about sending a special UN force into Afghanistan to investigate what went on there?
It won't end with 50 civilians dead, believe me.
Or maybe, when you catch bin-laden, you should be asked to talk peace with him, since, after all, violence doesn't lead you anywhere.
When you caught that top brass Al-Quaeda member did anyone decide to send over an international guarding force to guard his prison cell on Afghani soil?
How about sending an investigation party to Russia to investigate what went on in Chechniya? Aren't 100,000 dead civilians enough for that?
It's always easier to pick on the weak, aye?
And especially when it allows one to ease his guilt feelings of true massacres he once did himself, like your European friends.
It's my personal belief that Israel would be much better off outside of that jew-haters club called the UN. They are a real pain in the *utt.