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  • paese_che_vai_usanza_che_trovi paese_che_vai_usanza_che_trovi Aug 24, 2002 12:24 PM Flag

    Epitome of Hypocrisy

    "History will judge today's Israel to be a brutal, racist, occupying bully." (You have no precognition to assume what History will say.)

    "�pull back to the 1967 lines (including East Jerusalem), abandon all settlements and compensate the Palestinians that were brutally cleansed from their homes and land in 1948 by Jewish terror." (1967 borders were formed after Israel was forced to defend itself from imminent attack. Remove the Arab attacks and intentions of attack and borders will not be redesigned. As for 1948 Arab superstition and trust in their brethren had them believe that Israel would be destroyed. They left on their own accord. I repeat, Arabs left willingly to pave the way for Israel's destruction. We, as people, make choices in life that may led to either consequences or rewards. Israel would prefer to live side-by-side Arab people. But vice-versa is not the case.)

    "The original 56% granted in the UN mandate wasn't enough, then an additional 22% stolen in '48 during the Israeli War of Expansion wasn't enough, and now you want the remaining 22% occupied in '67."
    (The original land was more than enough. Somehow, though, the surrounding population decided it was 56% too much. Look at history closely, amico, to see who the aggressors truly were and who the defenders truly were.)

    "Get the F off the land you stole, and there will be peace." (As long as the sentiment relates to 'stole' there will be misdirected anger. The UN granted this land to Israel. It is the same UN that now sides with Arabs. How come one UN decision is abhorred while other UN decisions are applauded?)

    "Israel can do this on its own, end the occupation and restore justice, and salvage a measure of dignity�"
    (Israel has offered many gestures of peace only to be rebuffed. History will show that Palestinians rejected all efforts for peace. Could it be that peace was never part of their agenda?)

    I have Christianity in my background like you claim to have. Only difference is, I believe that God would like to see peace happen, but certain mentalities first need to be overcome. You seem to use terminology that is both inflaming and oppositional to any viable solutions therefore your attempts are very counterproductive. It appears that you wouldn't want to see peace either. Why after so many one-sided attempts by Israelis there is still no peace in the cards. Could it be that peace would end the purpose and existence of the only jobs some terrorists have? Could it be that if peace were to be achieved, the repressed peoples in Arab lands would then concentrate their energies on their own respective civil disputes? Could it be that this is why peace will not be achieved - that attentions will focus on overthrowing the dictators that rule their countries and those dictators would rather keep the flames burning that be ousted from their positions of power. As you, yourself called them "despotic Arab regimes" , how can peace be achieved with that going on? Can you offer better solutions that merely fan the flames of hate? You say you're not a hate monger, but your words prove otherwise. Calm down and search for both truth and salvation.

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    • The only "terminology" I use is a call for Israel, the strong one, to end the occupation of the remaining 22% of what is left of historic Palestine. I haven't even called for them to give back the other 22% they stole in '48, and they did steal it, by terror which lead to the cleansing of 750,000 people.
      That was never in the original mandate, now was it? Don't twist my words. Just get off the land, all 22%, all of the West Bank, all Gaza, all East Jeruslaem, just like it was on June 1, 1967. Until it does, Israel has no legitimacy except by might, which alwys fades. There is no security for Israel in holding 3 1/2 million people prisoner on their own land, destroying crops, poisoning wells, confiscating land, appropriating water resources, building settlements, settlement roads, roadblocks, checkpoints, missile strikes, etc, etc, etc. These are the acts of a thief and an opportunist, not a peace partner. If there were only army encampments in the West Bank and Gaza, insteas of dozens of permanent "settlments" you might have an argument. If East Jerusalem hadn't been annexed, maybe. But this is not the case, is it? Israel is brimming with modern weaponry, they don't need these conquests to protect themselves. They took what they took because they wanted it. They coveted it as part of the dream of the Land of Israel. You are no Christian, sir. Jesus recognized injustice when he saw it, and calls upon us to do the same. There can be no peace without justice.

      If it's hate you're looking for, I suggest you read a few of the posts following my last one. Apparently, all Arabs are liars, it's in their blood, don't you know? That language is familiar; as a peace loving man, you should recognize it for what it is. If you scroll back, you'll find posts advocating the extermination of the Palestinians - perhaps you missed that. I ask only for a measure of justice for the weak, the "least of these". Perhaps you'll recognize those words also.

      What was that you said about the UN? The UN's decision to partition Palestine in '48 was welcomed by Israel, yet every other resolution on the subject, on compensation, on settlement building, everything, was ignored and laughed at by that same Israel which so gratefully applauded the partition. Who's the hypocrite?

      No, you have missed the point. The great myth of Israel's creation, "the land without a people", had a people. The people were cleansed from it. Israel was built on the ruins of that crime against humanity. There can't be peace until that original sin is rectified. All they have to do is abandon the last 22%, completely, without exception or discussion, just leave.

      Imminent attack? BS. Moshe Dayon himself, in his memoirs, makes it clear Israel was never in any existential danger, that Egypt would never have attacked in '67. Israel wanted more land, and took it. That's it. If they really wanted peace, they would have done what many in Israel wanted after that war, and immediately proclaimed a Palestinian state on the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, and helped it to thrive. Today, Palestine and Israel would have been the best of neighbours. But that's not what happened, because the agenda for those in power wasn't about peace, it was about this biblical Greater Israel, and always has been, since the beginning of Zionism. But it seems the enterprise is stalled, with the world watching. Too bad.

      • 1 Reply to df2830
      • Hey paese, perhaps you are a better Christian than Desmond Tutu?

        Apartheid in the Holy Land

        Desmond Tutu
        Monday April 29, 2002
        The Guardian

        In our struggle against apartheid, the great supporters were
        Jewish people. They almost instinctively had to be on the side of
        the disenfranchised, of the voiceless ones, fighting injustice,
        oppression and evil. I have continued to feel strongly with the
        Jews. I am patron of a Holocaust centre in South Africa. I believe
        Israel has a right to secure borders.

        What is not so understandable, not justified, is what it did to
        another people to guarantee its existence. I've been very deeply
        distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much
        of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have
        seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and
        roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers
        prevented us from moving about.

        On one of my visits to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the
        Anglican bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as
        he pointed to Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of
        Israelis for security. But what of the Palestinians who have lost
        their land and homes?

        I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their
        homes, now occupied by Jewish Israelis. I was walking with
        Canon Naim Ateek (the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre)
        in Jerusalem. He pointed and said: "Our home was over there.
        We were driven out of our home; it is now occupied by Israeli

        My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our
        Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have
        they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions,
        in their own history so soon? Have they turned their backs on
        their profound and noble religious traditions? Have they forgotten
        that God cares deeply about the downtrodden?

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