Fri, Oct 31, 2014, 3:50 AM EDT - U.S. Markets open in 5 hrs 40 mins

Recent

% | $
Quotes you view appear here for quick access.

Delta Air Lines, Inc. Message Board

  • bearmarket2005 bearmarket2005 Oct 11, 2004 10:28 PM Flag

    pinvestment / lottopol.geo

    I realize you are losing a ton of money on Delta. That is most of the reason why you are so irrational in your belief that Delta will survive. But try not to get too married to a single stock position. You should have a stop loss price where you throw in the towel.

    Delta is not a good risk/reward on the long side. The odds of BK are simply immense right now. Easily > 90% chance of BK within three weeks, even with a pilot deal.

    Sometimes it is better to just walk away. Look what happened to Munhoi on the US Airways message board. That guy margined so much UAIR stock at $5 that it cost him his entire life savings. Don't let that happen to you. Good luck.

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • I believe you are trying to say all stock holders holdings are going to be worth .000= zero after bk. Delta can't stand behind thier shareholders. They have no choice than to nulify shares so they can regroup. Buy after bk happens, money then and only then.

    • No "at will" for pilots if BK'd. ('At will' implies discipline/termination @ Companys discretion and discipline or termination for just cause is a Grievence)
      >
      The ONLY real statuatory right mandted by the R.L.A. is a (System) Board of Adjustment. The BK judge will allow the Company to impose its own Wages, Drop the Pension, adjust Duty/Rest to FAR's, etc., the Dispute resolution process will remian in place:
      see:
      http://www.nmb.gov/documents/rla.html
      >
      � 184. System, group, or regional boards of adjustment

      The disputes between an employee or group of employees and a carrier or carriers by air growing out of grievances, or out of the interpretation or application of agreements concerning rates of pay, rules, or working conditions, including cases pending and unadjusted on April 10, 1936 before the National Labor Relations Board, shall be handled in the usual manner up to and including the chief operating officer of the carrier designated to handle such disputes; but, failing to reach an adjustment in this manner, the disputes may be referred by petition of the parties or by either party to an appropriate adjustment board, as hereinafter provided, with a full statement of the facts and supporting data bearing upon the disputes.

      It shall be the duty of every carrier and of its employees, acting through their representatives, selected in accordance with the provisions of this subchapter, to establish a board of adjustment of jurisdiction not exceeding the jurisdiction which may be lawfully exercised by system, group, or regional boards of adjustment, under the authority of section 153 of this title.

      Such boards of adjustment may be established by agreement between employees and carriers either on any individual carrier, or system, or group of carriers by air and any class or classes of its or their employees; or pending the establishment of a permanent National Board of Adjustment as hereinafter provided. Nothing in this chapter shall prevent said carriers by air, or any class or classes of their employees, both acting through their representatives selected in accordance with provisions of this subchapter, from mutually agreeing to the establishment of a National Board of Adjustment of temporary duration and of similarly limited jurisdiction.

    • >>>>>>>>>>>>
      Union workers are not "at will" regardless of whether they have had their contract terminated.

      Individual employees without a contract (f/a's, mechanics) are "at will" workers.

      RLA union workers have statuatory rights under the rla that "at will" workers do not have.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      What "rights" concerning pay, benefits or work rules does a union member have if there is no contract in force, other rhan the right to pay dues.

      All rights given union members, not given to other employees, arise only from the terms of a contract and do not survive the rejection of the contract.

    • Lott pol.

      You are wrong. Union workers are not "at will" regardless of whether they have had their contract terminated.

      Individual employees without a contract (f/a's, mechanics) are "at will" workers.

      RLA union workers have statuatory rights under the rla that "at will" workers do not have.

      It is an important distinction that you are not grasping.

      What does it ultimately mean today for DAL? Nothing.

      The deal is done. They are waiting for creditors/lease holders to also sign paralell concessions with the pilots that will attempt to bring aircraft leases etc. within the levels of AA, NWA, and Cal.

      This is what is holding things up. I expect it to be completed shortly and be very good for DAL and shareholders. All this, with fuel prices falling, means that this is the time to cover short or buy long.

      Don't be fooled by the negative hype about fuel and ALPA not signing.

    • >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      The contract can be rejected, but only after good faith bargaining.

      ALPA will still be the collective bargaining agent. The pilots will not be "at will" workers like the f/a's.
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

      The pilots will not be "at will" workers like the f/a's UNTIL the contract is rejected, then they will be "at will" workers exactly like the f/a's .

      The good faith bargaining required before the rejection is going on right now.

    • >>>>Also, Delta's moves to cut more jobs and salaries of nonunion workers - including executives - partially satisfies a union demand that other employees, bondholders and vendors share in the cost-cutting.<<<<<

      THERE'S THE GOOD FAITH CLAUSE IN EFFECT, TO BE USED IN CH.11 TO HELP REJECT ALPA'S CONTRACT.


      >>>>Any deal between Delta and union negotiators would have to gain union members' approval. <<<<<<

      YET MORE TIME DELAY TO GET A VOTE WILL ENSURE A BANKRUPTCY FILING SOONER THAN LATER.

      IN THE FINAL ANALYSIS, THIS IS ALL EERILY REMINISCENT OF WORLD WAR II, WHEN JAPAN'S AMBASSADOR MET WITH US OFFICIALS TO WORK ON A PEACE PLAN WHILE THE ZEROS WERE FLYING IN CLOSE FORMATION OVER HAWAII IN 1941, HEADED FOR PEARL....hope am proved wrong....

    • expectations for bearmarket today

    • >>>>true at some point DAL will have to negotiate a new contract because the relief from voiding a contract is supposed to be temporary<<<

      pinvestment, TERMINATING A CONTRACT IS NOT A TEMPORARY AFFAIR.

      See the below 'Note of Decision' (number 2. under Sec. 1113) "Necessity for relief:"

      THE "NECESSITY FOR RELIEF" FROM ALPA'S SUFFOCATING CONTRACT STEMS FROM THE BENEFICIAL AND POSITIVE EFFECTS IT WOULD HAVE FOR A SUCCESSFUL REORGANIZATION (which would imply 'permanent').

      SINCE DELTA MEETS THE BALANCE OF EQUITIES TEST [SECTION 1113 (C)(3)] DUE TO LOSSES FROM WEAKENED PRICING POWER CAUSED BY COMPETITION, WHICH WEAKENS DEMAND; AND DUE TO EXCESS CAPACITY WHERE DELTA COULD DO LITTLE TO REDUCE NON-LABOR COSTS; AND DUE TO DELTA NOT BEING ABLE TO REORGANIZE UNDER CHAPTER 11 IF CONTINUING LOSSES WERE NOT STOPPED; AND WHERE EMPLOYEES, IN THE LONG RUN, WOULD BENEIFT BY SUCCESSFUL REORGANIZATION AND STABLE WAGE RATES--ANY APPLICATION FOR REJECTING ALPA'S CONTRACT WOULD IN ALL PROBABILITY MEET WITH COURT APPROVAL.
      (TAKEN FROM A 'STEEL' CO. EXAMPLE)

    • Whatever pal.

      I am long on the stock. The deal is done.

    • TRUE. BELOW YOU ARE DISCUSSING WHAT HAPPENS DURING THE 30 DAY GRACE PERIOD, OR WITH TIME EXTENSION, WHILE THE APPLICATION FOR TERMINATING ALPA'S CONTRACT IS IN THE HEARING STAGES, BUT B-E-F-O-R-E THE JUDGE MAKES A JUDICIAL RULING TO SEND ALPA PACKING, TO END ALPA'S REIGN AT DELTA:


      >>>>>The judge approves the new work rules and pay. They become the staus quo and cannot be changed without negotiation under the RLA.<<<<<

      MEANWHILE THE CLOCK IS TICKING ON 30 DAY HEARINGS TO DO THE ARNOLD - TERMINATOR - ACTION

      >>>>>ALPA also has a right in court to argue against the new work rules and pay.<<<

      THAT AND A CUP OF COFFEE DOES NOTHING TO STOP THE INTERIM REDUCTIONS TO ALL UNION WORK RULES, WAGES AND BENEFITS TO SAVE DELTA FROM DEMISE.

      >>>>>The new work rules and pay are somewhere in between.<<<<

      NOT UNLESS THE JUDGE SEES A NEED FOR COMPROMISE FROM THE HEARING TESTIMONY; OTHERWISE IT'S A RUBBER STAMP OF WHAT DELTA NEEDS TO SURVIVE.

      >>>>>Delta cannot impose anything outside of court without negotiating.<<<<<<

      TRUE, BUT THE ONLY NEGOTIATIONS THAT MATTER ARE IN FRONT OF THE JUDGE. ONLY THE JUDGE CAN HEAR THE ARGUMENTS AND RULE ON HOW MUCH ALPA GETS A HAIRCUT--ALL THE WHILE THE 30 DAY CLOCK STARTS TICKING ON THE APPLICATION FOR REJECTION AS HEARINGS ON REJECTION GET STARTED.

      >>>>The court is the risk.<<<

      THE COURT IS DELTA'S SALVATION OR ITS TICKET TO THE GRAVEYARD. ALPA HAS THE MOST HIGH RISK AT THE TABLE, THE MOST TO LOSE.

      "GOOD FAITH AND GOOD CAUSE" WILL BE SHOWN BY DELTA TO ALLOW THE COURT TO ACCEPT THE APPLICATION TO END ALPA'S CONTRACTUAL RIGHTS TO REPRESENT PILOTS; BY DOING SUCH, IT WILL ALSO ALLOW DELTA TO CONTINUE TOWARDS A SUCCESSFUL PLAN OF REORGANIZATION.

      CREDITORS AND SUPPLIERS HAVE TOO MUCH TO LOSE TO LET ALPA'S NEGOTIATING STANCES AND LEGAL ARGUMENTS PRESERVE THE STATUS QUO, OR STAND IN THE WAY OF A TURNAROUND OR OF PROGRESS TOWARD ALLOWING 'THEM' TO REAP MAXIMUM RETURN ON THE DOLLAR TO COVER THEIR INDEBTEDNESS WITH DELTA---[SEE U.S.CODE, TITLE 11, CHAPTER 11 REORGANIZATION, SUBCHAPTER 1 OFFICERS AND ADMINISTRATION, SECTION 1113 REJECTION OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENTS, (c)(3)]

    • View More Messages
 
DAL
39.14-0.44(-1.11%)Oct 30 4:01 PMEDT

Trending Tickers

i
Trending Tickers features significant U.S. stocks showing the most dramatic increase in user interest in Yahoo Finance in the previous hour over historic norms. The list is limited to those equities which trade at least 100,000 shares on an average day and have a market cap of more than $300 million.
Groupon, Inc.
NasdaqGSThu, Oct 30, 2014 4:00 PM EDT
Flextronics International Ltd.
NasdaqGSThu, Oct 30, 2014 4:00 PM EDT